tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post3415428080143275772..comments2024-01-05T10:11:27.498+00:00Comments on Soot and Ashes: The World AFTER the Crash: Health Insurance Overhaul Open Threadbloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06585266242070350399noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-27546678776041957812010-04-09T09:43:48.223+01:002010-04-09T09:43:48.223+01:00I totally support that! Continue that way!I totally support that! Continue that way!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-15401674709791804232010-03-20T21:35:32.119+00:002010-03-20T21:35:32.119+00:00In 5 years no one will admit to ever being a liber...In 5 years no one will admit to ever being a liberalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-29566214061846885892010-03-20T18:38:21.185+00:002010-03-20T18:38:21.185+00:00I predict God will show he exists and strike the H...I predict God will show he exists and strike the House with an earth quake just prior to the vote. The only fatality from this quake will be Nancy Pelosi dying while sitting on the toiliet seat. Rumors will spread while with regard to finding Reid unconscience with his head between Pelosi knees.Dogcrapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-66806590004384270162010-03-19T19:12:52.236+00:002010-03-19T19:12:52.236+00:00Got snake oil?Got snake oil?J12Pnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-28339676655174714432010-03-19T19:06:19.877+00:002010-03-19T19:06:19.877+00:00Of course it will pass.
But it will only *kick th...Of course it will pass.<br /><br />But it will only *kick the can down the road* for a few years (months??) until this fraud-fueled medical quackery bubble implodes.<br /><br />Will the USA suffer a sovereign default beforehand with a crashing dollar and hyperinflation?<br /><br />Likely.<br /><br />Only time will tell...insure the unsurenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-54270448878198208522010-03-19T18:28:22.725+00:002010-03-19T18:28:22.725+00:00This congressional political volleyball match is a...This congressional political volleyball match is another shameful display of deceptive intentions being 'sold' to constituents as a legitimate act.<br /><br />What is actually transpiring in DC is a consolidation of legislative 'proposals' -- written in entirety by health industry lobbyists --being consolidated into a gigantic salmonella-tainted 'sausage' for taxpayer consumption.<br /><br />We're being 'treated' to this porkfest by a racketeering health care industry flexing its political clout for a bailout of its ethically bankrupt business practices.<br /><br />Instead of subsidizing their windfall profits, we should be aggressively investigating the corrupt collusive pricing schemes that are driving medical 'costs' through the roof!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-62632489262792510412010-03-19T18:24:32.777+00:002010-03-19T18:24:32.777+00:00This bill does not do enough. The whole system of...This bill does not do enough. The whole system of health care in the USA needs to be destroyed, and replaced with Single Payer Universal Coverage. Obama care doesn't do that. It just tweaks the existing system a little, postponing the collapse.<br /><br />Health Insurance Companies are not part of the solution. They are a large part of the problem. They need to be put out of business.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-23259046598294862662010-03-19T17:51:46.760+00:002010-03-19T17:51:46.760+00:00This legislative health insurance fiasco has more ...This legislative health insurance fiasco has more to do with maintaining/enhancing medical spending than 'protecting' uninsured Americans. <br /><br />This is a rigged 'fix' for the Medical Industrial Complex.<br /><br />The campaign contributions/kickbacks/payola associated with this boondoggle are going to be enormous...<br /><br />http://www.kff.org/medicaid/upload/7075_02.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-77801093260010567702010-03-18T22:57:54.352+00:002010-03-18T22:57:54.352+00:00Self employed consultant, late 20's, healthy, ...Self employed consultant, late 20's, healthy, uninsured.<br /><br />No way do I want this 2,000 page mystery meat bill to pass.<br /><br />C'mon.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02838979958618850383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-49675326654387167972010-03-18T22:39:59.020+00:002010-03-18T22:39:59.020+00:00pass: likely
10 years from now: most likely won...pass: likely<br />10 years from now: most likely won't be around any more b/c it can't be funded. Same goes for meidcare and medicaid. We'll barely have enough to pay for health care for our tax base, ie. people that work AND pay taxes.<br />Good advice, invest in health. No, not health care stocks, stupid. I mean your own health. Quit smoking, don't get drunk as often, excercise, eat healthy. By the time YOU retire there will be no medicare. 10 years from now, if you're retired and get seriously ill, you're dead unless you can pay out of pocket. One less recipient draining the social security fund. As far as social security, you'll probably get about half of what was promised.yoskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-79147339986362979492010-03-18T17:44:47.426+00:002010-03-18T17:44:47.426+00:00Keith,
The 2000 page plan is a disaster- maybe so...Keith,<br /><br />The 2000 page plan is a disaster- maybe some version will pass but it really needs to be cleaned up.<br /><br />One question- do you know if Americans living abroad will have to pay the IRS for not having insurance in the US, or are we exempt? I couldn't find this in spite of some research.<br /><br />Me: I'm running a company in SE Asia, my insurance plan (paid by the company) for both the wife and I runs $1300 per year and covers doctor and emergency room visits... no co-pay up to $90 per visit. Coverage is up to $50 k per year (big bucks for a procedure out here). It doesn't cover dental or vision so we pay about another $300 per year out of pocket for that.<br /><br /><br />Am I dreaming or is health care really this cheap? Service is generally professional, fast and thorough. <br /><br />The US system is totally f*cked. I have a problem where I get wax to build up in my ears, no way to remove it except go to the ear doctor every 4-6 monts to get it removed or I have trouble hearing and feel pretty uncomfortable. Here I go straight to the ear doc, and it costs about $35 which is covered by my insurane (though I'd happily pay cash). In the US I'd have to make an appointment with my primary care physician, then pay them the co-pay. Get them to make a referral to a specialist, wait 1 month. Go the the specialist, fill out the paperwork for an initial eval, then get seen for the procedure and pay another co-pay. Total cost was $50 out of pocket and hundreds of dollars billed to my insurance company plus 2 months waiting. <br /><br />Just to clean my god darned ears!<br /><br />Yes, the American system is a nightmare.<br /><br />And forcing everybody to go through mandatory insurance is a change but doesn't hold any appeal for me.<br /><br />Maybe it will cause a fix later but so would something terrible. Not sure if I follow your logic Keefer.<br /><br />-MikeMike Huntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-19670626408588271942010-03-18T17:27:01.149+00:002010-03-18T17:27:01.149+00:00Keith,
This is one of your better posts in a wh...Keith,<br /> This is one of your better posts in a while. thanks!<br />-JDFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-47898074968114722372010-03-18T17:13:18.843+00:002010-03-18T17:13:18.843+00:00I am all for the high deductible/tax free health a...I am all for the high deductible/tax free health account.<br />It will never happen, though. No, my insurance will continue to go up as I supplement the growing class of sickos and leechy baby boomers eating up all the care. <br /><br />I've got insurance paid for by my employer which I never use. I realized long ago that Western doctors make you sicker not better, so I checked out of that system long ago. My 3 kids haven't been to a doctor in years. Why? So they can be poisened with vaccines and make believe diagnoses which always require big pharmas involvement. No thanks. <br /><br />We do see a Chinese doctor who practices Eastern medicine for wellness checks. She is a big believer in herbs, vitamins and practicing a veggie diet as much as possible.<br /><br />It's sad how unhealthy this nation has become - a bunch of drugged up, gum diseased, high fructose corn syrup laced, fat asses. Your bad health didn't happen by accident...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-46137302406222510032010-03-18T17:06:03.507+00:002010-03-18T17:06:03.507+00:00To borkafatty .....
People are not going to read ...To borkafatty .....<br /><br />People are not going to read a treatise-comment.<br />If you want to get points across, make them short,<br />then make them shorter.<br /><br />This applies to many commenters recently.<br /><br />And rethink before you post.edd brownehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08825894326281481673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-24027497690637482602010-03-18T15:54:35.008+00:002010-03-18T15:54:35.008+00:00I predict it will pass, we'll start paying the...I predict it will pass, we'll start paying the taxes immediately, but the benefits will be massively scaled back before they start to kick in 4 years from now. (10 years of taxes to pay for 6 years of benefits with only $130B positive is the biggest slimy lie currently on the front page of the Washington Post). Hopefully we'll fall to something sane in the Singapore/Whole Foods/Indiana model + Death Panels for Medicare. Plus, it's moving to age 70 soon.staticvarsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-45388891771718457872010-03-18T15:40:48.235+00:002010-03-18T15:40:48.235+00:00http://www.medhunters.com/articles/healthcareInGer...http://www.medhunters.com/articles/healthcareInGermany.html<br /><br />The doctor who lives next door said the german healthcare system was the best model. I forgot why.<br />I've been living under a rock.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-52842717958273502262010-03-18T15:40:48.236+00:002010-03-18T15:40:48.236+00:00Bukko, I was talking about the situation in the UK...Bukko, I was talking about the situation in the UK, Not Australia or Canada. Both of those countries have huge reserves of natural resources, no military, and no population to speak of -- they can afford to subsidize health care to the point that people like you don't even notice the costs.<br /><br />The UK is more like the situation here in the USA. Both have dense populations, disfunctional economies levered to the hilt with debt, and significant military spending. While espusing lofty egalitarian goals and other socialist bullshit, in reality the UK's NHS rations health care. An unfortunate result is that older folks are put out to pasture. Need a <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/sep/13/organ-donation-transplant-waiting-list" rel="nofollow">liver transplant</a> or <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/dialysis-shortage-exposes-failings-of-nhs-601353.html" rel="nofollow">kidney treatments?</a> Too bad, so sad, you're too old/not important enough/ SOL, now go away and die.<br /><br />Obamacare will be much the same as it evolves into a state-run system. Limited resources will be rationed, as they must be, to best serve the needs of the State, not individual patients.<br /><br />BTW I currently have a HSA and a high-deductible ($5K) policy that costs about $950 a month. Is it perfect? No, but it does make me pay attention to the costs of procedures like colonoscopies or CAT scans. Funny how the charge for those things comes down 40% or more when you pay cash up front. <br /><br />If Obama was really interested in HCR, he would have proposed a system similar to the one in Chile. They have catastrophic insurance funded by the government with an underlay of private plans that serve various price points. The truly indigent get crappy, minimal care. People who want better care pay more for it. Unlike the loopy, false egalitarianism of the UK, or the silly bullshit that is Obamacare, the Chilean system is sustainable.SAWBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-62041538403923301602010-03-18T15:25:44.706+00:002010-03-18T15:25:44.706+00:00It is most likely gonna pass because the Dems in t...It is most likely gonna pass because the Dems in the House will follow Princess Nancy and King Barry off a cliff.<br /><br />There is no way this helps the Dems. They get a short term "win" in Congress that will translate into a massive purging of Dems at the ballot box in November. They were gonna lose a lot of seats anyway but this will easily double the body count. The people, including myself, support health care reform in principle but they do not support this vision of health care reform. <br /><br />Many of the people who are uninsured are unemployed or young and uninsured by choice. The young and the poor are core components of the Democrat base. As soon as both of these groups get their notice that they must buy insurance they dont have the money to pay for, or pay a tax on their already meager earnings that don't go far enough, or go to prison they will be alienated from the Democrat party for a long time, if not for life. <br /><br />This version of HCR is a disaster for the country as a whole as it is a massive new entitlement that will exponentially increase the nations deficit and debt over the long term, much like medicare. It's also a huge wet kiss to the health insurance industry and pharmaceutical industry. It needs to be defeated. Fascism is not the proper role of government.<br /><br />Keith's insurance is the type of insurance that people should have. If you get cancer you have insurance for that, if you get a cold you pay for it. Unfortunately, you cannot get that kind of insurance in most of the USA because State Legislatures mandate insurance companies cover everything for everyone and you are not allowed to purchase insurance from another state. Big companies get around that by purchasing insurance in a state where they have operations for their people throughout the country. My wife's company is based in TX, we live in NJ, and we get insurance from TX. If i wanted to buy insurance on my own from TX, I am not allowed to, even though the TX rates are way more affordable and the coverage suits my needs.<br /><br />The real problem is that insurance needs to be decoupled from employment and this does nothing to address that. Everybody thinks their coverage is "free" because their employer pays for it but thats not true. They get part of their salary in the form of health insurance and its usually about 25% of their total compensation. If people had to get it on their own and they paid the premiums directly out of their own pocket, there would be a lot more competition and the industry wouldn't be able to raise premiums 30% a year. This is a major factor in why most people havent had a raise in 10 years too. There's a 7.5% raise baked into the insurance portion of their salary every year. <br /><br />Right now the insurance company pays for the care and the employer pays for the insurance. The ultimate consumer pays a pittance directly. Until that changes to where the ultimate consumer of healthcare pays the premiums all the other costs associated with their own care out of their own pockets there will be no end in sight. People are way more careful with their own money than they are with someone elses.borkafatty aka the pighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07524081810483394380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-35915447884525214312010-03-18T15:04:48.468+00:002010-03-18T15:04:48.468+00:00monkey with the thing till everyone get bled dry q...monkey with the thing till everyone get bled dry quicker ftom "disease management" for profit where cures are not welcome and kickbacks are rampant from all sides involved bin he process who buy what is included as education and available and buy the leglislations to hinder all competors to that monbopoly rather than "health care" as health care, not to forget visa holder providers never available when trouble arises...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-10801827636191691822010-03-18T14:12:52.934+00:002010-03-18T14:12:52.934+00:00Whether Health Care passes of fails is a total non...Whether Health Care passes of fails is a total non-issue. The USD is a "Weekend at Bernie’s" currency that the Fed props up with their printing press running at full bore.<br /><br />We are in for a shocking collapse of epic proportions, THIS YEAR.<br /><br />Period and Case Closed<br /><br />Joe M.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005483996588605077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-56215809021644765632010-03-18T12:38:31.743+00:002010-03-18T12:38:31.743+00:00Keith,
I posted this in a long discussion at Mish...Keith,<br /><br />I posted this in a long discussion at Mish's several months ago. <br /><br />Please, read this book by US Historian Allen Matusow - it was published over 20 years ago - but have had updated revisions since.<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/Unraveling-America-History-Liberalism-1960s/dp/0820334057/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268915551&sr=1-2<br /><br /><br />I took my old copy (I read it as part of my Masters in History) and Scribed the pertinent 4 pages to make it easier for the discussion.<br /><br />http://www.scribd.com/doc/18649976/Unraveling-of-America<br /><br />Read the 4 pages. <br /><br />It is all clearly researched and and footnoted.<br /><br />What you'll find is that with the rise of health insurance in the 50s, health cost rose on average 7% with inflation at 2%. Once Medicare and Medicaid came into play (1965), health care costs rose 14% in that year and averaged that every year since (again with inflation running at an average 2%).<br /><br />This is why things cost so much. <br /><br />If government involvement in health care has driven up costs to unaffordable levels, what will our getting government even more involved do?<br /><br />Also, Matusow documents the same phenomenon with education - where with the advent of student loans and grants - again starting in 1965 - the cost of education rose on average 10% a year. <br /><br />Now at 10% - I believe you double every 6 years or so. <br /><br />Can you say parabolic? <br /><br />I guess we better get into health care or education before we're priced out forever.<br /><br />Cheers.sandmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-35775670754154081382010-03-18T09:50:19.946+00:002010-03-18T09:50:19.946+00:00I agree with patrat: avoid hospitals at all costs....I agree with patrat: avoid hospitals at all costs. <br /><br />I, too, know 3 people who were recently hospitalized. All ended up much worse off. One got MRSA and had to stay in the hospital for weeks. Another went in for heart surgery and died on the table, within minutes. The third was misdiagnosed multiple times and underwent all kinds of expensive testing before doing her own research to figure out it was a simple deficiency, not any of the dire diseases they were telling her she probably had.<br /><br />I feel like I would rather die than be subjected to hospitalization. <br /><br />To the poster above, mandates will not lower costs. These insurance companies are out for money. They will keep squeezing people for as much as they possibly can get. Look at what's happened with higher education. The more money the government has thrown at it, the more expensive it's gotten. You can't remove one of the few remaining incentives insurers have to stay competitive and then expect them to lower rates.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09205994382079229651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-62234895258907855362010-03-18T08:28:28.776+00:002010-03-18T08:28:28.776+00:00Pass: yes
Help: Dems (and the country)
Why:
1) 30...Pass: yes<br />Help: Dems (and the country)<br /><br />Why:<br />1) 30 million more insured<br />2) Mandate - lowers cost by spreading risk<br />3) Eliminate pre-existing condition denials (not possible without mandate)<br />4) Expand medicaid for the poor<br />5) Close 'donut hole' in medicare prescription benefits<br />6) Subsidies for low & middle class<br />7) State-based insurance pools for those without employer insurance<br />8) CBO's ten year cost projection is slightly LOWER than the status quo<br /><br />Costs:<br />1) Tax on luxury plans and high wage earners.<br />2) Increased medicare tax on investment income<br /><br /><br />That's basically it. The '2000' pages critique is just spin. That's how much verbiage big legislation takes these days.<br /><br />In all, much less than I had hoped for (single-payer, or at least a backdoor govt-option to single payer). But it's better than what we have now. Do at least this much well, and we may be able to make more progress in the future.<br /><br />What do I have:<br />A high-deductible plan ($1200/yr family) + a tax-free health savings account.<br />I actually like it, and will probably keep it. But, I have family and friends with nothing at all.Ben Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15128085804190777036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-8271875518653034412010-03-18T07:35:07.936+00:002010-03-18T07:35:07.936+00:00no it will not pass. the insurance companies and o...no it will not pass. the insurance companies and other corporations have too much influence over congress. i work for the state of california. good union medical ppo plan. let it all burn down. my sister ran away to sweden to be with her swedish boyfriend. maybe i will join her when i am 65.long beach, canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6568749253826790814.post-89904198524469707012010-03-18T05:58:33.367+00:002010-03-18T05:58:33.367+00:00The health "care" "reform" wil...The health "care" "reform" will pass. After Hopey took Kucinich on that plane ride and changed Dennis's mind (what did he do, threaten to throw Kucinich out the ejector door if he kept saying "no"?) it was clear the fix was in.<br /><br />I've said it before -- this is a fascist bill where the government uses its power to help insurance corporations, not the population. It will help sink the Dims in 2010 and 2012 because the Repugs will make up some bullshit that's as far-fetched as "death panels" and many American morons will believe it. The only possible counterbalance will be if health insurance companies start fighting FOR this bill after it passes, maybe using fake front groups a la the Dick Armey.<br /><br />Either way, it's going to be as much of a mess as Medicare Part D was. I don't think it's going to help many people, because there's nothing in it to make insurance companies act better, except for the "no excluding people for pre-existing conditions" clause. But as far as I know, there's nothing that says "You can't raise the cost for an insurance policy to $1,000 a day if somebody has a pre-existing condition." So sick people who need health care will still be screwed.<br /><br />There's a long lead time before this kicks in, so the airwaves will be full of commotion over it for years. What a revolting development.<br /><br />Health care status: living in a country with socialized medicine. I pay something puny in premiums for my wife and me, like $106 a month. It's so small, I don't even pay attention. And if I get deported from Canada, I can go back to Australia, where I'm eligible for the national health care there at a cost of 1.5% tax on my salary. Unlike what ignorant <b>SAWB</b> thinks, people over age 55 DO get medical care for serious illnesses there.<br /><br />The screwed-up situation re: health care in the U.S. is one of several reasons my wife and I would not consider returning to the States. We're doing OK financially, but we're Boomers who are getting older. It's in <b>America</b> where aged people are going to be left to die when they get sick, not countries with nationalized health care.Bukko Boomerangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02424677168216647964noreply@blogger.com