December 5, 2008

FLASH: 533,000 more jobs cut in November. Is yours next?

Thank you realtors.

Thank you mortgage brokers.

Thank you bankers.

Thank you Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.

Thank you appraisers.

Thank you George Bush.

Thank you Angelo Mozilo and Michael Perry.

It's official now folks - we have fallen off a cliff, possibly like never before.

Employers cut 533K jobs in Nov., most in 34 years

WASHINGTON – Skittish employers slashed 533,000 jobs in November, the most in 34 years, catapulting the unemployment rate to 6.7 percent, dramatic proof the country is careening deeper into recession.

The new figures, released by the Labor Department Friday, showed the crucial employment market deteriorating at an alarmingly rapid clip, and handed Americans some more grim news right before the holidays.

45 comments:

jim said...

Crap.

Anonymous said...

Yeah baby, yeah. I thought the economy was sound. Do yourself a favor and don't listen to the media or the government. Its a fixed game and they want you to follow everything they say.

Anonymous said...

We know it's bad and it's going to get worse. Where are the ideas on this new site to stop it.

We're drowning and most of the comments I've read are describing the water.

Is it simply that there is no reinventing it? Are we as a nation so far gone there's no use coming up with big, innovative ideas?

I just read that Milwaukee neighborhoods are thinking of printing their own money. Now that's innovative.

Went2puke said...

Anon said: "I just read that Milwaukee neighborhoods are thinking of printing their own money. Now that's innovative."

Don't but anthyng lest your life depended on it. Save money and stash it under your mattress until you have enough to buy arable land. Then learn how to grow and raise your own food (produce, cows, chicken, etc, if you don't already know how to do that). Make sure you have guns and lots of ammo. It's not going to be pretty out there.
Is that innovative enough for you?

gwk said...

I was 22 in 1974 with a new baby(son) and I was unemployed for most of the year and to collect benefit insurance you had to stand in line for hours to physically sign for your check and this every 2 weeks so you did not go on an extended vacation with your new found time off you also had to give your examiner a list of the places you went to seek work although you did not have to accept a lower paying job. This was also the time of waiting in long lines for 10 gallons of gas. I did eventually find work and it took me years to recover financially but I did and I feel sorry for the people out of work today but with determination they to will recover.

Lost Cause said...

I have been going through this for years now. This is nothing that I am really afraid of. I have survived so far. I am getting ready to start selling apples on a street corner. I will survive no matter what it takes.

Anonymous said...

Thank You FED! Play it again Sam and don't say uncle yet.

JaneZ said...

Anonymous said...

We know it's bad and it's going to get worse. Where are the ideas on this new site to stop it.

We're drowning and most of the comments I've read are describing the water.

Is it simply that there is no reinventing it? Are we as a nation so far gone there's no use coming up with big, innovative ideas?
-----------------------------------
Scroll down to the "Worst President Ever". Got a whole thread on gardening and ghoulash.

Big, innovative ideas are for Paulson and Bernanke. They got a new one everyday, haven't ya noticed?

Personally, I am not an onion lover, but damn if I don't believe that one day soon onions are going to be looking just fine for dinner.

The solution to the millions of personal disasters about to happen is not going to be solved by our Great Leaders, or our neighbors,or the Church, or all of our Great Techno Wizards.

Got onions?

keith said...

Well, it looks safe at this point to say the world is ending, we'll be entering an end-of-the-world-as-we-knew-it depression, houses will be worthless, and the stock market will fall to zero

Unreal

keith said...

Oh, I forgot - and that we don't need any more oil, or zinc, or copper, or corn, or aluminum, or TV's, or cars, or food, or anything.

Everything is worthless.

That about sum it up?

Wind Farmer said...

Got friends?

JaneZ said...

keith said...

Oh, I forgot - and that we don't need any more oil, or zinc, or copper, or corn, or aluminum, or TV's, or cars, or food, or anything.

Everything is worthless.

That about sum it up?

The world didn't end during the last depression and it won't end during this one, but downsizing is not going to be near as fun as upgrading was.

The rules are changing.

Most everyone I know outside of the box here is still talking about what their next purchase will be once everything gets back to normal.

I just want to know what the new normal is gonna look like so I can plan for it.

So what is the new normal gonna look like? You know, like when our government owns all the houses, and the cars, and the food, and we work for them building infrastructure (like the WPA in the 30's)?

Why are we going to build infrastructure? What will we need new bridges and roads for? What are we going to be transporting that we need trillions in infrastructure?

Milwaukee printing their own money? They are beginning to think local. That's Kunstler.

I would think that all of us would be interested in what the new normal is going to look like. It is pretty obvious that the days of playing the market and waiting for our investments to make us rich ain't gonna happen anymore.

So now what?

Mark in San Diego said...

"Back to normal". . .yes, I hear that all the time - but what will be the new "normal" - very likely 1935 for a long long time. Some progress is being made on the housing front - now young couples here in downtown SD say, "well in 10 years, we will likely see our condo as a good investment.". . .this is progress, two years ago, they thought things would be back to normal by 2009!!!

Anonymous said...

WHITE COLLAR BLUES

When the Free Traders came to power
And outsourced unionized manufacturing jobs overseas
I remained silent
Because I was not employed in unionized manufacturing.

When Free Traders were re-elected to power
And outsourced non-unionized manufacturing overseas
I remained silent
Because I was not employed in the non-unionized manufacturing

When the Free Traders consolidated their power
And outsourced low skill service industry jobs overseas
I remained silent
Because I was not employed in the low skill service industry

By the time the Free Traders monopolized all power
And outsourced professional jobs overseas--
Law, medicine, accounting, banking, investment--
Jobs in which I and my friends were employed-
There was no one left to speak out for us

Brother, can you spare a 10 trillion?

Anonymous said...

Don't but anthyng lest your life depended on it. Save money and stash it under your mattress until you have enough to buy arable land. Then learn how to grow and raise your own food (produce, cows, chicken, etc, if you don't already know how to do that). Make sure you have guns and lots of ammo. It's not going to be pretty out there.
Is that innovative enough for you?

--------------------------------

yep. I think we are headed for a hard reset back to the basics.

there have been innovative ideas. the 10 trillion money bomb is one...

Anonymous said...

Oh, I forgot - and that we don't need any more oil, or zinc, or copper, or corn, or aluminum, or TV's, or cars, or food, or anything.

Everything is worthless.

That about sum it up?
----------------------------

we have finally entered into the phase where people are running scared and they don't know what to do. they don't have faith in anything.

it is starting to be the time for those with money to buy up true assets at fire sale prices. almost. we aren't quite there yet.

JaneZ said...

My brother and I drove our area for a few hours the other day looking at half built McMansions and strip malls. We are in an area that the problem is just beginning. Still way big into denial here, but commercial construction has stopped dead. The banks are working with the realtors to sell these half finished houses. the realtors are doing nothing to secure the properties, or clean up the construction debris or board up the broken windows. They just have the realtor put the sign out front and wait. It isn't working in Florida, or Phoenix, or Las Vegas and it isn't going to work here.

Brother is a General Contractor. I do the books, he finds the work and subs it out. We have so much overbuild here of huge unfinished McMansions. We saw one yesterday that was a Bank Owned property. 6,000 sq. ft house with 2 full kitchens of granite and travertine and stainless. Who the hell needs a McMansion with two full kitchens??? Another has a full home theater in the basement with stadium seating for 20. Hello???? It is on the market for 970,000. BWHAHAHAHA We even saw one empty residential subdivision with an empty strip mall right in the middle of the property? Huh? Are we wanting our own personal barber shops and suntan shops now?

These houses were built to sell for between 750,000 to a mil. They are now sitting for sale with weeds in the front yards, the neighbors in the subdivision all are trying to sell and can't.

The banks may not like being Landlords but I see no way out of it for them. At least the Own to Rent program would keep some of these McMansions occupied for the time being. Someone has to take care of these properties and subdivisions, or else Mad Max time has arrived.

We are hoping it is us, and we have subcontractors that are hoping it is us also because it is all grinding to a halt commercially.

On a sidenote, Brother Contractor just did a remodel for a little shop in a strip mall called "Snippets". This little shop cuts little kids hair. They also throw a party for the kid while he gets his hair cut, I guess so he doesn't throw a tantrum or possibly cry. This is a priority? That our little kids don't have to be traumatized during their haircuts?

Tell me, what it is in America that we do that is relevant? Nothing. Haircut parties for our kiddies?

We are not waiting for the new normal. We are going to try and create our own new normal if it is possible, but I am still going to expand my garden and learn to live by the old ways.

And yea, Windfarmer our real friends are way important now.

Done for the day Keith

eric in vegas said...

I have no doubt that by June my hours will have been cut to 32 a week. If I'm lucky I'll still have a job.

Anonymous said...

We are hoping it is us, and we have subcontractors that are hoping it is us also because it is all grinding to a halt commercially.

Hey Mr. general contractor your brother is done. I've been a subcontractor for 25 years and I know what a real BUILDER is. You add no value to anything and so are not needed. The only guys who are working now are those who bid the jobs and work them. The bubble contractors are now bone piles. So advise bubble contractor brother to sell his 50,000 doller pickup for 8,000 and buy some tools and go to work, if he even knows a trade which is doubtfull. We don't need any nonworking bubble boy contractors anymore. They are a thing of the past like their illegal Mexican labor.

I'm just saying.

Anonymous said...

"keith said...
Oh, I forgot - and that we don't need any more oil, or zinc, or copper, or corn, or aluminum, or TV's, or cars, or food, or anything.

Everything is worthless.

That about sum it up?
December 5, 2008 3:50 PM"

Not so fast, Bunkie.

Imagine you are homeless, cold, half-starved, BUT have plenty of fiat dollars in your pocket and have a 9mm pistol, but no ammo to go with it.

Now, imagine with bullets, you could be warm, safe and full of nutrition and your family could be safe(r).

What would 1 round of ammo be worth to you? Let's Make A Deal.

Think about it.

Bang Bang. Two Down.

DIE U PIGS

danm said...

Tell me, what it is in America that we do that is relevant? Nothing. Haircut parties for our kiddies?

We are not waiting for the new normal. We are going to try and create our own new normal if it is possible, but I am still going to expand my garden and learn to live by the old ways.
------------

When we only need 5% of the working population to produce essentials, that's what you get.

Over the next few decades, I wouldn't be surprsied to see North Americans forced to do more of their own dirty work as the cost of living equalizes across the globe.

Lady Di said...

Forget about buying gold bars, I'm buying bars for my windows. Damn these numbers are ugly.

gutless and lazy declares Globalism DOA said...

"Globalism" is dead. Countries just havent figured it out yet. When countries like the USA run huge deficts for years, it was doomed to fail from the get-go.

Soon the USA will act like a country again. Strickly in it's own self interests. Instead of treating itself like just a market place. It will have to.

If it wants to survive that is.

Anonymous said...

Let's say people bought houses at overinflated appraisal prices, that they couldn't afford, at outrageous prices, but the mortgages weren't bundled and sliced and diced and LEVERAGED AT 40 TO ONE or they were only leveraged at 3 TO ONE...would we be in the mess we are in?

The leveraging to the sky, reselling around the world was the last straw I think..

Leveraging and interest seem to undo every economy when taken too far. Think anybody will remember that a century from now when they write about the Greater Depression.

grandma pkk

DDM said...

I don't think anyone wanted to see jobs outsourced, danm. Except for the people who already had too much money.

Peter Hollin said...

" Anonymous said...
We know it's bad and it's going to get worse. Where are the ideas on this new site to stop it."

I couldn't agree more. We've been talking about how bad things are and the latest follies, not solutions. Of course the first solution is to get rid of the fools who brought us here and get some responsible leadership pulling the levers of power.

Unfortunately, the main option everyday people have is to try to organize and get a voice loud enough to be heard by our elected officials.

So, we have to find an idea that enough of us can agree to and rally behind.

Here's one I like: shut down the CDS market entirely. They were instruments designed solely to evade regulation in the first place. Shut them down, invalidate them entirely, and stop the madness. They are illegitimate instruments and we should no more suffer them to be traded than we should allow a derivatives market for counterfeit $20's to be traded.

http://tinyurl.com/3lma49

Jezus on a rubber cross said...

You're all so royally fucked!

Guns and ammo! Raise chickens! Grow your own food!

Kill anyone who looks suspicious!

How sad you all are. First thing that goes through your mind is some daffy duck brain drivel "me me me! Mine mine mine!"

I'll tell you what innovative is: it's not clinging to guns and religion. It's reaching out to help those who may need it. It forming local communities where everybody can pitch in to help. Collective kitchens. Sharing resources. Not walling yourself in like some mad fucking max unbomber.

The world is as bad as we all make it. Try giving of yourself and what you have instead of hoarding.

Save anothers life and you save your own!

Peter Hollin said...

Anonymous said...
I just read that Milwaukee neighborhoods are thinking of printing their own money. Now that's innovative.
--------------------

Community currencies are nothing new and are a fantastic example of how small-scale actors can protect themselves and dig themselves out of the mess instead of waiting for the government to rescue them.

You basically issue your own local fiat currency backed by and limited by your own labor and trust in your neighbors. There's a chicken-and-egg challenge of community currencies both requiring as well as building trust in a community. There are several that have worked for a long time and very well.

Get to know Bernard Litaer; one of the few people on this earth who actually understands money itself

http://www.lietaer.com/

Gary the produce guy said...

So just exactly how do you produce a cow?

Just add water (or milk in this case) and stir?

Peter Hollin said...

I agree with windfarmer and JaneZ. Community and friends are the best survival strategy.

I've been getting involved with cooperatives lately. I have to say it's incredible what you can do once you are part of a group of 10-30 people who are accustomed to working together, trusting each other, and making decisions together. Getting to agreement or consensus tends to be the hardest part. Once you do that, things happen almost as if by magic.

If the shit hit the fan mad-max style, my first move would be to find out where my co-op people are and start working with them.

There are certain problems in this world you don't want to try facing alone.

Peter Hollin said...

@Gary the produce guy

You don't. But neither does the supermarket. Farmers do it in return for things they can use. These days that's cash, which they can use to buy fuel and fertilizers and not pay for labor. But if fuel is unaffordable or unobtainable, then labor starts becoming a viable alternative.

That is a challenge for community currencies, though - achieving sufficient scale that producers can trade that currency for things they want and need. Hence the reason most community currencies are used to trade labor rather than to purchase hard goods or assets.

In some of the more successful ones you can buy real goods with the local currencies (Ithaca, NY). But producers' limited appetite for labor often does become a bottleneck. That's ok though because community currencies can compliment other systems (national currency, barter, etc) without needing to replace them wholesale. If you can pay in your own labor for haircuts, professional services, and other things you currently pay for in dollars, you make your dollars go further for the things you can only pay for in dollars (like your rent).

We'll see what producers' appetite for labor is when people are desperate for work and oil trades at $700 a barrel. I don't see that happening in nominal price terms, but if we're talking about hedging against social breakdown then it's worth considering.

Anonymous said...

JaneZ,

Interesting but more interesting if you said what area of the country you are in.

Anonymous said...

Thank you realtors.

Thank you mortgage brokers.

Thank you bankers.

Thank you Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.

Thank you appraisers.

Thank you George Bush.

Thank you Angelo Mozilo and Michael Perry.
////////////////////////
Keith? DId you forget to say thank you to the greedy BoogerKink and McDonnies windowwonders, and Sonic Carhops who bought 300K homes on A dollar, two ninetyeight an hour jobs?

Anonymous said...

Over the next few decades, I wouldn't be surprsied to see North Americans forced to do more of their own dirty work as the cost of living equalizes across the globe.

December 5, 2008 6:05 PM
sorry!!!!
I dont do windows except Vista. Bloggin all day!!

Anonymous said...

You're all so royally fucked!

Guns and ammo! Raise chickens! Grow your own food!

Kill anyone who looks suspicious!

How sad you all are. First thing that goes through your mind is some daffy duck brain drivel "me me me! Mine mine mine!"

I'll tell you what innovative is: it's not clinging to guns and religion. It's reaching out to help those who may need it. It forming local communities where everybody can pitch in to help. Collective kitchens. Sharing resources. Not walling yourself in like some mad fucking max unbomber.

The world is as bad as we all make it. Try giving of yourself and what you have instead of hoarding.

Save anothers life and you save your own!


-----------------------------------

This is one of the most sensible posts I've read on this blog. Greedy people are stupid.

MrCoffee

Typical American Out - Look said...

"...The world is as bad as we all make it. Try giving of yourself and what you have instead of hoarding.

Save anothers life and you save your own!"

I got to find out where this rube lives. In the case of a total ecomonic meltdown a sucker like this could come in handy.

keith said...

Oh, gee, imagine that. They fudged the numbers before the election in a desperate attempt to get McCain elected and the incumbents not tossed on their asses

There should be an investigation. And there won't be.

"October numbers revised downwards to -320K down from -240K. September numbers revised downwards to -403K from -159K."

Guberville Smack said...

C'mon. For any real change to happen you have to cut off the beasts head. When future generations (not so far ahead) are given our tab, the fight will truly be on. Till then, get back to watching Mad Max on TV.
Here in Vegas, I got laid off in May, but found a new job within 2 weeks. I was lucky because the survivors in my old firm got axed last month when the office closed completely. Its been harder on them finding new work. Go figure, it was an architect firm specializing in commercial retail. (Those Circuit City shoe boxes can house plenty of homeless, but extra provisions would have to be needed for bathing).
Hopefully having to relocate would be as bad as it will get, we will see. I would prefer to sit here and wait it out.

vanilla ice said...

"October numbers revised downwards to -320K down from -240K...."

And yet whoo hoo, the stock market goes.. up! This because of what?

Some useless financial company said it was weathering the storm better then expected. Also, it might be because the numbers were so bad, government action might be warranted perhaps?

Bukko_in_Australia said...

It's probably been mentioned here before, and almost certainly on HousingPanic (apologies that I have not read every comment evah!) but here's a good blog for you doomsters who are thinking about an economic collapse. It's written by an Argentine who saw his country fall to pieces almost overnight. He tells what life becomes like and how to get by. It's not like everyone had to go into walled survivalist compounds and shoot hordes of starving zombies. If you're worried about how you'll go and haven't read FERfal, he's worth a squizz. Hs most recent post, even though it was put out Nov. 30, is particularly relevant in light of the latest jobs numbers.

Anonymous said...

My wife and I saw this coming 4 years ago. Its already to late for the W2 masses. My wife and I have retired this year. We are 42 and 39Taking our millions overseas. Bye!

Lost Cause said...

Yeah, read that Argintina stuff really carefully.

Anonymous said...

we may not be the same sort of people today and what if big business has eliminated its competition by making street peddling of apples illegal anyway. or then was it treasonous that now the "affordable" apples come to market in the USA today from asia, and.or whar of the enforcers of those "laws"...,. er i forgot that self protection is a crime.........

Anonymous said...

and the guy who spliced the rapid growth and giganticism genes into the wheat grain plant made me feel like a hungry bumblebee

LibVet said...

"Forget about buying gold bars, I'm buying bars for my windows. Damn these numbers are ugly."

While looking for old books at the thrift store I overheard one of the ladies in charge say that business was booming because people were buying Christmas presents there.

I've started locking my doors for the first time.

My barber pointed out that good men are going to... be doing dishonest things now. He's one of those groovy old compassionate guys and if he says so, I believe him.