I'm not sure what to make of America anymore.
Play by the rules, make wise financial decisions, pay your taxes, get nothing back.
Gamble, live above your means, don't pay your taxes, commit mortgage fraud, and the government looks the other way or bails you out.
What message does this send to the kids?
Here's the Senate bailout bill (pdf). Skip ahead to Section 7 - Foreclosure Prevention. And you'll see it right there in black and white - $50 billion so that the government can modify the mortgages, including reducing the amount the housing gambler owes.
(Why is anyone in America paying their mortgage today by the way?)
So you and I pay taxes so that our government can keep people in homes that they paid too much for, shouldn't have bought and cannot afford.
What a country.
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17 comments:
Keith, it is totally surreal. Been that way for a while. Heading for the cliff.
Keith,
Here is why I continue to pay my debts, including my mortgage: I don't want to wind up in an internment camp (debtors prison), or to have my mortgage extended to lifetime terms for me by the government. These are things we need to think through before doing anything rash.
I am dumbshit, i admit it.i lied to the lenders and my wife.She left me broke and now i am stocking shlves at walmart.
Where's Casey anyway? Does he still have any blog?
It's the final step in creating a socialist republic. And this was done with the HELP of Bush policies.
Does 50 billion goes to fannie & Freddie, (gov owned) or again goes directly to commercial banks to rewrite debt mortgages?
either way its discusting.
So let me be sure I got this right. If you bought before 2002 you are a responsible, prudent, wise consumer? If you bought after 2004 you are a gambler and committed fraud?
All I wanted was a house. It took 35% of my income, but I could afford it. I paid for a phoney appraisal in a phoney market with a phoney economy.
I am underwater 35% and am taking a nice long stroll the fvck away from that debt trap. They can give the bailout money to the bank along with the house.
Too bad I didn't get my degree 10 years earlier (not in finance or economics), then I could have done the exact same thing with the exact same motives and considered myself responsible and prudent.
Just making the point here that there are people too who simply got caught up in this clvsterfvck.
And what should I say?
With 0% down and a year rent free, it turns out I will come out well ahead.
Well guess what?
A lot of people came out ahead for the same fvckin reason, simply owning a home at the right place at the right time.
Will be interesting to see how people on this board respond to this.....
Why is anyone in America paying their mortgage today by the way?
Some of us belong to Credit Unions because of the stupid crap that for-profit banks pull. FYI: The Credit Unions are still solvent and haven't had to go to Congress to beg for money.
I know that the financial crisis affects all of us, but it's nice to know that I can get a loan if I need one.
I happen to be one of those people who came out ahead. I lived in Brooklyn, and when apts in my building started selling for 500k, I new it was a bubble and I sold. They were not worth more that $350 if you ask me. I think Keith is referring to the people who put 0% down and expected to live off the refinancing ATM, which is a vast majority of home buyers in the last 10 years.
But I agree 100% about the message to our kids, and I have said this all along, in the USSA, if all of your friends are jumping off a bridge, should you? tell your kids yes, as long as they have a lot of money and everyone is doing it, because the government will put a net at the bottom and catch you, and then give you 50 billion.
From my perspective, I hope people continue to play by the rules and continue to honor their debts/obligations. As for me, I won't. But I need the rest of you idiots to comply so I can get away from paying off my debts.
BTW, I am still recovering from my accident. But I get sporadic painful spasms around my spine, neck and shoulder at the same time. It is rough, very rough, but I will get through it.
Anonymous Matt C said...
Keith,
Here is why I continue to pay my debts, including my mortgage: I don't want to wind up in an internment camp (debtors prison), or to have my mortgage extended to lifetime terms for me by the government. These are things we need to think through before doing anything rash.
February 9, 2009 11:54 AM
Matt, don't be so darn foolish. There are too many debtors in America. So the government will take the path to least resistance; in order to satisfy us so called FB, they will print more and more money or devalue the dollar or even just write the bad "toxic debt" off.
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The good news is that Barney Frank will be in charge of allocating that money. (excuse me, I need to vomit in the trash can)
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Will be interesting to see how people on this board respond to this.....
It really depends on what your mindset was when you were buying the house at the time. If you knew it was a:
"phoney appraisal in a phoney market with a phoney economy."
then you knew what you were getting in to and really don't deserve any of our sympathy.
And if you didn't believe it was phony (ie you never did the research, or came accross websites such as housing panic, etc), then the question becomes... why? Why didn't you do more research on something which was going to be the most expensive purchase of your life? And if you didn't do the research, why are you expecting any sympathy?
The fact is... yes, previous generations might have done the same thing you did, but I hardly think that being the same type of lemming as they were is a good defense. You just got 'unlucky' and now have scorn heaped on top of you. The same thing would have happened to the previous generations of lemmings if they were 'unlucky'.
Is it unfair that people are calling you a moron instead of the previous generations? Yeah, sure, the world ain't fair... I'll give you that. But should anybody give you sympathy for doing the same stupid things previous generations have done?
I don't think so.
Try to think of it this way...
There's an old decrepit bridge with a sign that says "DANGER - BRIDGE UNSAFE - KEEP OFF". And for years people are walking across that bridge, oblivious to the signs.
Then all of a sudden, the bridge starts to creak and groan and swing in the wind, and a group of concerned citizens start waving flags at people to try and warn them to stop using the bridge.
But they don't listen and keep walking.
The grass is just so much greener on the other side.
Then you come on to the scene and start crossing the bridge. And the bridge collapses.
So yes... I will be laughing at you rather than those who crossed the bridge successfully. But that you are indignant at my laughter... HA... the CHUTZPAH! Unbelievable!
Just be glad that you are able to make it to the shore and walk away from the wreck... but don't you dare tell me that I shouldn't be laughing at YOU becuase YOU were not paying attention to the signs.
Life is rarely so forgiving as to get a few snide remarks from people when you screw up so badly.
Go lick your wounds somewhere else and learn from your mistakes... it should make you a stronger and better person and maybe people wont call you a moron as much...
"And if you didn't do the research, why are you expecting any sympathy?"
Uhm, er... Isn't it the people whining on this blog about the taxpayers dollars the ones looking for sympathy?
I simply made the point not eveyone was a gambler or flipper.
But you are 100% right. I did not do adequate research for such a purchase, and I hope I have learned a ton since then. Found HP about 6 months after I bought the place, and knew immediately I was fvcked. HP was the first place where all this nonsense made sense.
And yes, I am very fortunate they did away with the 1099 tax law so I can walk away with a foreclosure rather than a bankruptcy.
You are welcome to laugh at my screw up.
Last year I thought the entire REIC was a joke, myself.
This year I realize it's the entire country.
Guberville, for what it's worth, I think walking away is the right thing to do. I'm directing this comment at Matt C. too - I can't believe it but I actually agree with Nick on this one.
What I find offensive is that this $50B is a total lose-lose situation.
That taxpayer loses, that's obvious. But so does the person who will remain house poor for the rest of their life.
They would be so much better off walking away. But they won't.
Even after this catastrophe, most of them still haven't woken up to the fact that they have made themselves slaves to their homes. In exchange for accepting a bailout they will never ever be able to walk away from their overpriced homes.
Matt C, I hope that you can join Guberville and Nick in escaping this fate.
"...All I wanted was a house...I am underwater 35% and am taking a nice long stroll the fvck away from that debt trap...
...Just making the point here that there are people too who simply got caught up in this clvsterfvck...A lot of people came out ahead for the same fvckin reason...right place at the right time..."
That's really what it was; Casey would've retired had he pulled the trigger in '95 instead of '05.
You're absolutely doing the right thing walking away; ESPECIALLY morally.
The real saps are the ones who will buy the "let's help you stay in your home" con.
Oh. My. GAWD are they going to get fucked hard.
Uhm, er... Isn't it the people whining on this blog about the taxpayers dollars the ones looking for sympathy?
You know what... you have a point. Why are people indignant that the government is using tax dollars to pay for the banksters and the whole collapsing housing ponzi scheme?
I used the 'bridge' analogy to refer to the whole fractional banking system and how alot of people for many years have been screaming and warning that it is unsound and will some day collapse. In fact, they have been yelling this point since the FED was created.
This 'bridge' was the mechanism used by people (for the last 90 years) who were renting on one side to become homeowners when they finally crossed to the 'greener' pastures on the other side.
But you know what else... that bridge can also be used as an analogy for the government, and many people have been warning and screaming that the government is unsound and close to collapse - especially when it started two failed wars which wasted so much American treasure - including lives, material and money.
So why is it, after hearing all these warnings about the government, that we are now surprised that it is broken and collapsing underneath us?
You're right... the country is a joke.
Those of us who have been laughing on the shoreline at everyone who fell in the water... we don't even realize the huge sinkhole that's about to give way beneath our feet and swallow all of us.
(BTW... I used laughing as an extreme example. What it really is just the satisfaction of knowing that you aren't crazy for screaming at everybody all these years that 'the system will collapse!' I swear at one point, that bridge was defying gravity.
So... all we're really doing now is telling everyone "See... I told ya so!" with some smug satisfaction. But honestly, we shouldn't be so smug.
Anyway... good luck to you in the future.)
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