June 18, 2009

If we hadn't spent $12 trillion, hadn't bailed out the banks, hadn't passed the stimulus, and hadn't done a thing, what would America look like today?


What would the unemployment rate have been?

Where would the Dow be trading today?

How far would GDP have fallen?

What would be the deflation rate?

What percent of homes would have been in foreclosure?

Would there have been riots and violence and hunger and looting?

Would the ATMs still be working?


                                  --- Amounts (Billions)---
Limit Current
===========================================================
Total $11,623.63 $3,800.18
-----------------------------------------------------------
Federal Reserve Total $7,565.63 $1,478.88
Primary Credit Discount $110.74 $65.14
Secondary Credit $0.19 $0.00
Primary dealer and others $147.00 $25.27
ABCP Liquidity $152.11 $12.72
AIG Credit $60.00 $37.36
Net Portfolio CP Funding $1,800.00 $248.67
Maiden Lane (Bear Stearns) $29.50 $28.82
Maiden Lane II (AIG) $22.50 $18.82
Maiden Lane III (AIG) $30.00 $24.34
Term Securities Lending $250.00 $115.28
Term Auction Facility $900.00 $447.56
Securities lending overnight $10.00 $5.59
Public-Private Investment Fund $1,000.00 $0.00
Term Asset-Backed Loan Facility $1,000.00 $0.00
Currency Swaps/Other Assets $606.00 $417.86
MMIFF $540.00 $0.00
GSE Debt Purchases $600.00 $33.58
Citigroup Bailout Fed Portion $220.40 $0.00
Bank of America Bailout $87.20 $0.00
-----------------------------------------------------------
FDIC Total $1,551.50 $400.30
FDIC Liquidity Guarantees $1,400.00 $261.30
GE $139.00 $139.00
Citigroup Bailout FDIC $10.00 $0.00
Bank of America Bailout FDIC $2.50 $0.00
-----------------------------------------------------------
Treasury Total $2,206.50 $1,621.00
TARP $700.00 $387.00
Tax Break for Banks $29.00 $29.00
Stimulus Package $168.00 $168.00
Stimulus II $787.00 $787.00
Treasury Exchange Stabilization $50.00 $50.00
Student Loan Purchases $60.00 $0.00
Citigroup Bailout $5.00 $0.00
Bank of America Bailout $7.50 $0.00
Support for Fannie/Freddie $400.00 $200.00
-----------------------------------------------------------
HUD Total $300.00 $300.00
Hope for Homeowners FHA $300.00 $300.00

63 comments:

Pay Lay Ale said...

How would the US be if we instead had used the $12 trillion to wipe out most of people's debts instead? Sure there's moral hazard in that, but there's also moral hazard in bailing out banksters.

How would the real economy benefit if people could save and spend the money they currently use in servicing their debt?

Anonymous said...

Wall Street would look like a war zone -- bombed-out buildings, smoking ruins, blood-stained sidewalks, decomposed bodies of bankster-brokers hanging from hastily-tied nooses, decapitated heads stuck on parking meters, tar and feathered remains littering the streets...

The remnants of rage-filled revolution and vigilante justice.

keith said...

I'm not saying I was for looting the treasury to bail out the banksters

I'm simply pointing out that if we had done nothing, life in America (and around the world) would be very, very different today.

And no, the ATMs would not be working.

bread and circuses said...

You make it sound like spending that money accomplished something. All we've done is postpone dealing with what is now a crushing level of debt. We either pay it or default. As there is no wealth readily available to pay the debt, we could try living austere lives and using the surplus of our labors to pay the debt. But our citizenry is fat and lazy, and they aren't willing to work harder to pay it in any reasonable time. Only about 15% even produce anything, the rest consume and live on the dole or government payrolls.

So that leaves default. Default would have been a lot easier for everyone concerned about $12T ago...

frede said...

I dunno, but Ayn Rand is there, screwing her neighbor's husband and stepping on the middle class!

Anonymous said...

I'm simply pointing out that if we had done nothing, life in America (and around the world) would be very, very different today.

And no, the ATMs would not be working.
.


What a total crock of sh*t. Would banks have failed? Yes, quite likely. We do have FDIC insurance though don't we?

Now what's the true cost of that $12 trillion? We don't know yet but we're talking an astronomical sum.

The stimulus hasn't even been spent yet so you can't say that has saved the economy.

Who's to say that the outcome would have been so different? And we would still have that $12 trillion.

What do you think the cost of servicing this debt is gonna be? And what do you think is going to be the effect on the economy at large of this quantitative easing?

I'm sorry Keith. Your analysis is far too simplistic.

Duarte said...

Just kicks the can down the road. The phrase "reserve cuurency" is rising quickly at Google. Inflation monetizing people's debt is no panacea. Horrible investment killing times ahead.

Pay Lay Ale said...

Keith, you're missing the point. Had we had GD v.2.0, we could have gotten a new financial system. The current financial system is a drag on the real economy.

How much sense does it make that nearly every individual, business, and government to be in debt to their eyeballs to banksters who created money out of thin air in the first damned place?

"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

-Thomas Jefferson

Why doesn't the all merciful, all-knowing, all-caring, Lord Obama understand these things?

Anonymous said...

Keith, I have an important question for you and your readers. Do you people accept that the media is largely propaganda?

Here is the scoop on the so called Al Qaeda operative, Azzim the American who turns out to be Adam Pearlman - the son of Carl Pearlman - chairman of the United Jewish Welfare Fund and served on the board of the Anti-Defamation League (the organization that shuts down any criticism of Israel with charges of anti-semitism).

Go read about it here:

IT’S OFFICIAL: ‘Al-Qaeda’ spokesman Adam Gadahn (a.k.a. Pearlman) is scion of Jewish ADL.

Now we also know that Israeli Mossad agents were arrested on the morning of 9/11 with vans packed with explosives and observed dancing in celebration on the roof of their van.

Do any of you understand that 9/11 was a Mossad operation?

Mark said...

1st Point:
Why add "if we...hadn't done a thing." to a question about whether we should have allowed the looting of taxpayers to the tune of $12 trillion ??? No one is suggesting that we do nothing (not even the Libertarians). The question is worded in a way that makes it seem like there are only two choices: 1) looting of $12 trillion; or 2) doing nothing. There are a huge number of things we could have done and still can do that don't involve stealing from the taxpayers to give to JP Morgan, Citibank, Goldman Sachs, AIG, etc.

2nd Point:
This was a George W. Bush fear-based con from the start and has just continued. "If we don't attack Iraq we'll be attacked by weapons of mass destruction." Fear-based conning of the sheeple. GWB and gang rushed through TARP, stimulus, etc. lying to the sheeple about how it was going to fix the problem and painting a picture of dire consequences if we let some of the big banks go under. Now we have Geitner, Bernanke, Summers and the rest of the Kleptocrats doing the same thing.

The truth is that we would still have banks, ATMs and services had we let JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, AIG, and Citibank fail. I can guarantee we will have more urgent fear-based appeals to loot the American taxpayer.

The good news is that this will all come crashing down (slowly or quickly) and we'll move towards a more sustainable economy without the Federal Reserve and other hinderances.

Pay Lay Ale said...

Also Keith, what happens after Obama kills off the dollar? How will we import oil? How does America change after 60% of its oil supply is cut off? How does that effect the real economy, in the short run?

That would be absolutely catastrophic. It would cause people to starve and cause probably half the population to be homeless, destitute, and unemployed.

Hawver said...

"Wall Street would look like a war zone -- bombed-out buildings, smoking ruins, blood-stained sidewalks, decomposed bodies of bankster-brokers hanging from hastily-tied nooses, decapitated heads stuck on parking meters, tar and feathered remains littering the streets..."

Sounds to me like we'd be a lot better off. Banker, noose, lightpost. Some assembly required.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps we would have affordable home prices.

Sure... in East Bumblefuck as most of the readers seem to live as they talk about farming and their 600/mo mortgages homeprices are affordable. They always were.

But no.

The banks here in L.A. have to sit on their foreclosures for fucking YEARS and titrate them out. Unless of course you want to live in "da hood".

Prices are still 500% above 1997 prices.

I'm beginning to thing that Real Estate is really just a big scam.

Anonymous said...

How much would each 'TAX payer' receive if they would have divided that 12 trillion amongst them?

Anonymous said...

.



I got your stimulus right here!



.

Anonymous said...

If we hadn't bailed out the banks, they would have gone through bankruptcy reorganization. The incompetent and corrupt management would have been replaced. Bond holders would have taken a giant hit when debt was converted to equity. The banks would have been up and running again in a matter of days, far healthier than they are now.

Generally, the economic picture would have been a lot brighter than it is today.

The whole purpose of the bailouts was to keep the bond holders from losing money and the executives from losing their cushy jobs. That's it. Period. Your children's future was sacrificed to pay the gambling debts of a lot of rich cry babies.

The whole putrid deal was foisted on the public by a corrupt government, using massive scare tactics and the best media sell job since the Iraq WMDs. Over and over again we heard assinine statements like "We need to eliminate the toxic debt that is clogging the pipes of the financial system". Wow, what trenchant analysis that was. But it was good enough to convince the sheeple (including you, Keith).

How much did that "stimulus" help? Unemployment is still climbing, and will for years. And what do we do when the "stimulus" runs out? Another stimulus? The government borrowing and Fed printing will eventually destroy our currency, even Keith admits that. By that time, the rich will have bought up anything worth having at firesale prices. You loose again.

If you aren't boiling mad, you aren't paying attention.

Anonymous said...

The government should have taken things to what I call 'Baseline Growth': a point at which everyone is able to save and work their way forward to wealth. This would mean being honest about Greenspan's 'doube bubble trouble' and going in with forensic accountants and hauling out all the bad derivatives and trash, breaking up banks, and getting to a state of true solvency and sound money. Then pour the stimulus into infrastructure, SME loans and investments, R and D, education grants, and healthcare.

6% of Nothing said...

"I'm beginning to thing that Real Estate is really just a big scam."

What rock have you been under the last 10 years?

yoski said...

Nothing would have happend that's not going to happen anyway. The only difference is that it still lies ahead and will be much worse when it gets here. It's really that simple.
At least the dollar would have remained reserve currency, a status it most likely won't be able to hang onto for much longer. The reserve currency status has far reaching implications for our ability to live beyond our means. We have postponed the inevitable but at the same time we've turned a temporary recession/depression into something that will stay with us forever, the irrevocable decline of US economic power, a change of the guard. Stuff you'll be able to read about in history books 500 years from now and they all be asking the same question "What the hell were they thinking?".

Wind Farmer said...

If we hadn't done a thing...America would look like it does today in rural South Carolina...and WILL look like it anyway by 2013. I just took a short trip through SC last week. It was so depressing on the drive out... house trailers, prefab vinyl-clad houses, cars in the front yards. How can people live like that... Then, on the way back I noticed something else. The back and side yards all had huge gardens, piles of firewood, big barnlike sheds, chickens, goats, horses amongst the above ground pools and the trampolines. And I thought, that's it, people can live like that. Driving back toward my neighborhood of 1/3 acre lots and 3,0000 sf houses, I wondered again, how can people live like this? (Eventhough we have our share of trampolines, too.) One other thing...I'm pretty sure those house trailers are paid for.

Ron Paul is right! said...

It's coming anyway man, it was just delayed a bit is all. Maybe they avoided global calamity but you can't seriously believe anything is fixed?

Again, there is no way inflation takes hold if everyone is working $10 an hour jobs. Unless employers start hiring in big numbers again and unless wages start to climb, this things going down. And we are taking the rest of the world with us. What will China do with all their crap if we don't buy it? What will OPEC do with all the oil if we don't buy it? You can talk all this decoupling and inflation all you want, but when the rubber meets the road, it just doesn't add up. Now if the government starts giving out helocs and credit cards, then the party's on again, woohoo! But no income and no credit = no buying China's crap!

At best, we have a lost decade or probably longer, like Japan had. More than likely we still have some serious deflation ahead of us. I still think homes are going to 2000 levels, maybe lower. And they are probably taking most every other good or comodity with them. We still have those "good loans" to go through yet. The high credit score, no income documentation, option arm stuff. And if I remember correctly, there were ALOT more of those kind than of the subprime and they start to reset in the next 1-3 years?

So subprime caused the past 8 months destruction and the trillions spent, whats this next next wave going to cause??? I think its time to re-open housing panic.

Singular said...

"The whole purpose of the bailouts was to keep the bond holders from losing money and the executives from losing their cushy jobs. That's it. Period. Your children's future was sacrificed to pay the gambling debts of a lot of rich cry babies."
------

Good post.

Money does not grow on trees. The Fed Reserve works for its own interests and not for the people of America. How stupid was that to give a small group of private individuals so much power?

Every time money is printed in this way, money is devalued and the value of everyone's savings goes down. Putting the future into hock.

And why don't people do something about this situation as it's not like this is some secret about the Fed Res that only a few people know about ....

Maybe because everyone in America is more or less drugged up to their eyeballs - either with dope, alcohol or prescription drugs.

Such a country is very easy to take over - viz. China in the late nineteenth to early twentieth century.

America is finished. It's only a question of HOW it will go down. Probably in some drug-induced haze.

(And before the junkies start hyperventilating at me - I do not care about the US; I do not like Americans very much. If they want to destroy themselves by becoming a drugged-out nation then who cares. I wish they would as a matter of fact. They're halfway there anyway. But it's still true that drugs damage a society.)

People will look back on this period of America's history a hundred years from now and dissect it. They will point out the flaws in its political system as one of the major reasons for its decline and eventual collapse.

There is no hope. We may as well talk about saving Sodom and Gomorrah, the way the US is so far gone. The US is not unlike Sodom and Gomorrah btw. Maybe the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would be shocked by the US if they were reincarnated and could see the US now. (I'm an atheist btw and I'm not referring to homosexuality - in case people think I am part of the religious right.)

Anonymous said...

Wall Street would look like a war zone -- bombed-out buildings, smoking ruins, blood-stained sidewalks, decomposed bodies of bankster-brokers hanging from hastily-tied nooses, decapitated heads stuck on parking meters, tar and feathered remains littering the streets...

The remnants of rage-filled revolution and vigilante justice.




I love it when you talk dirty.

Anonymous said...

It would be Free from the usery of bankers!

casey said...

I would probably be on the streets begging for food.Thank god for ben bernake and the printing press.The dow would have dropped to 4000 or totally crashed.Would have been scary shit.

Anonymous said...

we just kicked the can down the road so that or children and grandchildren will toil for our sins.

selfish bastards if you ask me.

we should have had no atms, soup lines, homelessness. we should have paid for our excesses.

Miss Goldbug said...

Anon said: "Prices are still 500% above 1997 prices.

I'm beginning to thing that Real Estate is really just a big scam."



Huge runup in prices here in the bayarea as well. Lots of garbage coming up for sale now that school is out. Not much happening yet in the nicer areas where I live. With all the leverage, I'm certain housing has been one big ponzi scheme for the past 20yrs.

It's going to have to crash soon. No matter how slow the banks release forclosures.

Go Israel! said...

"Do any of you understand that 9/11 was a Mossad operation?"
-------------------
Do YOU understand that YOU are a moron?

Stick to the thread's topic, a$$hole!

consultant said...

One thing is for sure, if we hadn't bailed out the banks, a couple of years from now we would have had some great books, which would have been made into movies, about the numerous murders of wealthy people who headed up our major financial institutions.

As they use to say, the movies would have had a cast of thousands!

Matt C said...

Keith,

You have lost your moral compass. You are using the same "ends justify the means" argument that Dick Cheney used for the last 8+ years. What is this, your "smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud" moment? America is about the rule of law, not expedient panic. Stealing from the poor to enrich the rich, justified by financial panic, is what just happened. It is punishing the individual for the supposed bennifit of the many. First, thats wrong. Second, thats not even t he case. The many are going to be screwed too, they just won't understand how or by who. But you will, and you won't care.

-Matt C

Anonymous said...

We didn't spend that money...

There IS NO MONEY. All we did was issue IOUs against our children's future productivity.

"...The whole purpose of the bailouts was to keep the bond holders from losing money and the executives from losing their cushy jobs. That's it..."

Well put, Sir/Madam.

Anonymous said...

What would the unemployment rate have been?

Where would the Dow be trading today?

How far would GDP have fallen?

What would be the deflation rate?

Probably around the real deflation rate right now. It's not like that money actually entered the marketplace. All it did was transfer debt from the banksters to the public.

What percent of homes would have been in foreclosure?

See above.

Would there have been riots and violence and hunger and looting?

There might have been riots. They would have been put down quickly. There would be no more hunger than with the current policies, possibly less.

Would the ATMs still be working?

No, and that would be a good thing. Most of the public's money would be in federally insured vehicles and would have been okay.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry you will still get to see all that first hand .If you could print you way out of debt zimbabwe would be the richest nation in the world instead of eating mud cookies .

Amtex said...

Posters don't undertand AIG. They insured things that allowed the global market place to function. You let AIG fail and the entire works siezes up.

They had to act fast and certainly made some mistakes. But the alternative would have been way, way worse than just mountains of debt.

By the way, the world will indeed soak up the US debt. No matter how they try not to, they always come back to US dollars.

Anonymous said...

frede said...
‘I dunno, but Ayn Rand is there, screwing her neighbor's husband and stepping on the middle class!’

Read her writings before commenting, DOPE!

Anonymous said...

Uh...Kieth,

Most of us get the point. But we are still not buying the Green Shoots argument.

You can change the borders back to blue now.

RayNLA

william d said...

>Keith, if you had to pick a location for best bolt-hole when TSHTF where would it be?

This is an interesting question. Oddly the answer might be some rural area in a red state.

The appeal of saying some caribbean island paradise I think is unrealistic, as you'll be the first door the natives come knocking on when they get hungry. And they won't take no for an answer. And guess what, the phone lines are dead and the policía are all happily settling into their own safe houses.

gutless and lazy said...

WHY do I have to keep breaking the REALLY IMPORTANT news???

BILLIONS IN U.S. Treasury Bearer Bonds Being Smuggled and Dumped.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=a62_boqkurbI

I friend of mine works for the FBI. From what I heard, the bonds are REAL. And Japan is quietly trying to dump U.S. dollars and debt before they plummet and loose SERIOUS value.

There's ALL SORTS of monkey business going on out there folks, and the MSM isn't even reporting it.

The end is nigh, my friends. The end is nigh.

Anonymous said...

The bailout is pointless except to buy time to get things in place for the hard reboot of the economy that is coming. We think of the economy like the weather with a historical perspective. It is more like a network that we now have some idea how works. We need to take the system down to repair it that is all.

However, those who think they own something but don't (including commodities) will be very disappointed by the outcome.

DMP

k.w. - Southern Ca. said...

Coming to a town near all of us:
http://snipurl.com/kdpw6

Duarte said...

She's got on a pretty damn warm looking coat, there. Read iTulip.com. None of the economic risk factors have been addressed. It's all hair of the dog. No deflationary spiral. No currency stability. The panic isn't here, yet.

Anonymous said...

"That's the way it works in America," Scrushy said.

Looking back on Don Siegelman, perhaps he wasn't so railroaded after all.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Wall Street would look like a war zone -- bombed-out buildings, smoking ruins, blood-stained sidewalks, decomposed bodies of bankster-brokers hanging from hastily-tied nooses, decapitated heads stuck on parking meters, tar and feathered remains littering the streets...

The remnants of rage-filled revolution and vigilante justice.

June 18, 2009 5:33 AM

So it's a win-win then?

Anonymous said...

Thought of the day:

Popular government has two major parts. One part is fraud. The other is larceny. As to the first, it is like a professional wrestling match – full of lurid threats, spilled beer, sacred cows, gaudy uniforms and self-delusions; the fans feel their private parts shrink when their man loses. If he wins, they feel they are winners too.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/bonner/bonner389.html

anon said...

Anon said:
‘Keith, I have an important question for you and your readers. Do you people accept that the media is largely propaganda?’

Dude, I’m confused;
You are the one always pointing to the media to prove your mental concoctions, how are we to trust the links you point to?

Please provide YOUR list of trusted and propaganda sites.

We will only consider YOUR approved sites as non- propaganda

swannster river said...

>Sure there's moral hazard in that, but there's also moral hazard in bailing out banksters.

Not the same thing. The country would EXPLODE if irresponsible borrowers were given large amounts of cash by the government to pay off debt. Responsible buyers would go wild to the point of rioting.

will shill for coin said...

>But our citizenry is fat and lazy.

I'd support policies that would make that a thing of the past.

Anonymous said...

Get ready! Cause here it comes! Get into TBT while it's cheap!


UPDATE 1-US Treasury announces record week of bond auctions
Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:39pm EDT


WASHINGTON, June 18 (Reuters) - The Treasury Department announced on Thursday a record $104 billion worth of bond auctions for next week, part of its herculean efforts to finance a rescue of the world's largest economy.

The sales will exceed the previous record of $101 billion set in auctions that took place in the last week of April and consist of two-year, five-year and seven-year securities. That record was matched by another $101 billion week in May.


http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN1839697720090618

He pulled a Paulson said...

Things would be the same...Everybody knows Paulson & His cronies made off with the 700T so its not like its "Working" or anything.
Its the future that would have benefit from them not stealing the money...it would not have to be paid back if they never took it right?

6% of nothing said...

"If we hadn't done a thing...America would look like it does today in rural South Carolina...and WILL look like it anyway by 2013. I just took a short trip through SC last week. It was so depressing on the drive out... house trailers, prefab vinyl-clad houses, cars in the front yards. How can people live like that... Then, on the way back I noticed something else. The back and side yards all had huge gardens, piles of firewood, big barnlike sheds, chickens, goats, horses amongst the above ground pools and the trampolines. And I thought, that's it, people can live like that. Driving back toward my neighborhood of 1/3 acre lots and 3,0000 sf houses, I wondered again, how can people live like this? (Eventhough we have our share of trampolines, too.) One other thing...I'm pretty sure those house trailers are paid for."
_______________________________

Nice post and right on the money...If MOST people lived with-in their means this is what it would be all over the US but the Debt masters cannot rule if you are not in WAY over your head and paying monthly.

Only the hard working & wise escape a life of working for the Man.

Anonymous said...

TBT? Only if you want to lose your shirt. The fix is in my friend, and those treasuries will be sold in record time. Interest rates are headed back down and the USD is going up. You know what that means for stocks...

Don't fight the Fed!

Reality said...

$12 trillion is more than 6 years worth of total federal income tax revenue, collected from all individuals and all corporations!

Many many new jobs would have been created and numerous jobs would have been saved if taxes were suspended during the past year, for less than 1/6 the cost! The average tax witholding is close to 20-30% in a typical pay check (including 15% payroll tax); that's the money that an employer has to pay but the employee is not getting! Just imagine what a huge boost to the economy it would be if either the employee gets paid 33% more (adding 25% to current 75% take-home is a 33% increase!) or the employer could cut back expense by 25% without affecting the employee's take-home pay.

El Loco said...

FAKE MONEY FAKE MONEY FAKE MONEY !

Anonymous said...

Here is a good story for you bond investors. I think I'll stay with TBT.

How the Bearer Bonds Saga Could Bring Down the US
Jun 18th, 2009 | By Contrarian Profits | Category: Top Story
Today’s Notes reads more like a John le Carre novel than an investment newsletter. But bear with us. It tracks one of the most fascinating news stories you’ve never heard of. The news reports are maddeningly sketchy. And the mainstream media is doing a damn good job of not reporting the story.

But it’s clear the arrests by Italian authorities of two “Japanese-looking” men allegedly attempting to smuggle $134.5 billion worth of US bearer bonds across the Swiss border is the biggest financial crime in history. And one with major implications for America’s economic security.


http://www.contrarianprofits.com/articles/how-the-bearer-bonds-saga-could-bring-down-the-us/18081

yoski said...

"And we are taking the rest of the world with us. What will China do with all their crap if we don't buy it? What will OPEC do with all the oil if we don't buy it? You can talk all this decoupling and inflation all you want, but when the rubber meets the road, it just doesn't add up."
The rest of the world will be just fine. They don't need our consumption or our toxic debt. Instead of loaning US money they'll just take it and buy their own stuff with it. It analogy would be saying the organism would die without a parasite constantly sucking blood out of it. Decoupling is a process that takes a decade or two, doesn't happen over night.

gutless and lazy:
" friend of mine works for the FBI. From what I heard, the bonds are REAL. And Japan is quietly trying to dump U.S. dollars and debt before they plummet and loose SERIOUS value."

I heard they are fakes. $500 million dollar bearer bonds didn't exist in 1934. Not sure if the link will post correctly:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/143462-strange-inconsistencies-in-the-134-5-billion-bearer-bond-mystery?source=from_friend&ref=patrick.net
Still why would anybody go through the effort making top notch forgeries and then put a bogus date on them? Usually when people counterfeit stuff they use smaller denominations. Why didn't they (assuming a sovereign country)just send a diplomat to get the stuff across the border? Why is it the exact amount of money $134 billion that is left in TARP? Why is our media not reporting about it? Lots of questions and no answers.
It doesn't take a conspiracy nut to see that something is seriously wrong here.

Anonymous said...

"Bearer Bonds Saga Could Bring Down the US"

You can put away your tin foil hats now - those oh-so-mysterious bearer bonds nabbed at the Swiss border - they turned out to be forgeries.

yoski said...

Off topic, $134.5 billio in bonds.
From link posted by anon 9:19pm

"It seems careless, to say the least, to get caught with $134.5 billion dollars worth of securities by a regular inspection on a train. We’ve already ruled out that this wasn’t an official state operation (otherwise the bonds would have traveled in a diplomatic pouch). So it’s certainly odd that people sophisticated enough counterfeit or steal $134.5 billion worth of US government bonds couldn’t think of a safer way to transport them.

The implication is the “Japanese” interlopers wanted to be caught. And they wanted the world to know that US bonds could be so expertly forged.

Who would want to destabilize US economic power? Who would have the technology and the know-how to print such convincing forgeries? Who is a declared enemy of the US? Who might have “Japanese” looking agents working for them? North Korea would have to top the list of suspects…"
and this on CNN:
Warning: Counterfeit dollars from N. Korea
Treasury Department says the country could use financial deception to get around sanctions.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/18/news/international/Treasury_warning_North_Korea/index.htm?postversion=2009061815

msNJ said...

Forgeries, really?

I floated the idea in another post, and I saw Denniger suggest on his site, that those bonds are real, but they are "officially" being declared "fake" in order to legally dispose of $134 billion in debt. It's a set-up.

Ron Paul is right! said...

"And we are taking the rest of the world with us. What will China do with all their crap if we don't buy it? What will OPEC do with all the oil if we don't buy it? You can talk all this decoupling and inflation all you want, but when the rubber meets the road, it just doesn't add up."

yoski said...

The rest of the world will be just fine. They don't need our consumption or our toxic debt. Instead of loaning US money they'll just take it and buy their own stuff with it. It analogy would be saying the organism would die without a parasite constantly sucking blood out of it. Decoupling is a process that takes a decade or two, doesn't happen over night.

Yoski, problem with that theory is this. Chinese company ABC Inc makes a widget which it sells to the USA for $5. It sells it for $5 based upon USA's median household income. Now if ABC Inc must sell these widgets to its own countrymen or other countries with much lower median incomes and wealth, they obviously won't be able to sell said widgets for $5 anymore. And that my friend would cause them some serious deflation. Less profit, less employed, higher unemployed, etc, etc. As much as it seems like the world doesn't need USA and Western Europe and our toxic debt, fact is they really do. We are in a better position to flip them the bird than they are to us. Remember, the USA could shut down the borders, give everyone the bird and sustain ourselves. And we still got the biggest guns! And you do know we pay for the worlds prescription drug research, right?

kill the killers said...

Um.... to GO ISRAEL:

9/11 is connected to this topic.

9/11 was the begining of the great "American bull-shit Century."

So, if you cant connect the dots, and do a little research, maybe you should just pull your head out of your ass.

Things might become more clear.

Anonymous said...

Those bearer bonds were fake. They never planned to cash them in. Instead the dopes were going to flash individual notes as collateral to try and open hundreds of bank accounts for the mafia. Kind of like fanning a wallet full of $100 bills to try and impress the ladies. In Switzerland you need a bit more than that to impress the SOB bankers.

The mob needs lots of new accounts to handle the hundreds of $billions they will skim from Obama's stimulus/porkulus programs.

Anonymous said...

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on 9/11: "It's very good..."

"...The implication is the “Japanese” interlopers wanted to be caught. And they wanted the world to know that US bonds could be so expertly forged.

Who would want to destabilize US economic power? Who would have the technology and the know-how to print such convincing forgeries?..."


Maybe somebody who would believe a $500 Million transaction would be completed without an inquiry; based on the appearance of the paper?

Pfffft.

Anonymous said...

12 trillion divided by 305 million = $39344.2623