May 29, 2009
Alright, have at it. What's up with WTC7?
I think two jets hit WTC1 and WTC2 and took them down.
But WTC7 has always been a bit odd.
That's where any good conspiracy theory starts.
Knowing what we know now, Dick Cheney's Halliburton sure had a lot to gain that day. All the Neocons had a lot to gain that day. The Military Industrial Complex had a lot to gain that day. They didn't need controlled explosions - jets loaded with fuel and hijackers seem to do pretty good work.
But WTC7?
Knowing what we know now about Dick Cheney, maybe it's time for a second 9/11 investigation?
Nobody has been able to convince me that anything other than crazed Islamic cult members with boxcutters were responsible that day. But I see now who was perfectly positioned, and who had the most to gain. And that Patriot Act sure got written pretty quick, eh? 9/11 was convenient for a lot of folks. Especially Dick Cheney.
And WTC7?
Interesting.
So have at it, even the Truthers. Give us your best conspiracy theory. Should be interesting.
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110 comments:
The 9/11 Commission wasn't even a real investigation. The members of the 9/11 Commission admit themselves that it was "set up to fail".
CBC News Interview with 9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton.
The 9/11 Commission was a joke. They ignored the abundant testimony of the survivors and firefighters describing explosions, flashes and chains of explosions:
9/11 Firefighters Oral Histories Clearly Describing Explosions.
The only real investigations have been conducted by independent groups of scientists, architects and engineers.
Here's a great video from one such organization:
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth: Blueprint for Truth (2008).
The 9/11 Truth movement is not simply a group of kooks and crackpots living in their parent's basement. Those that question the official story of 9/11 run the gamut of physics professors, intelligence analysts, engineers, architects, government officials and prominent personalities like Willie Nelson, Charlie Sheen, Martin Sheen and Jesse Ventura. It has also been openly questioned in Japanese and Canadian parliaments.
The most recent discovery is that of chips of unreacted thermite found in samples of the WTC dust. A physics journal paper describes the discovery in detail here:
Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe.
The paper is described here on video by Professor Niels Harritt of the University of Copenhagen:
Niels Harritt Interview on Danish TV.
And here are some important films that cover other aspects of 9/11:
Loose Change Final Cut.
Fabled Enemies.
So there is a wealth of information here if you really want to learn more about 9/11.
Or you can happily remain in your corporate media induced slumber.
-Gonzo
BTW - It's time we retired the "conspiracy theory" label. It's a lazy ad-hominem attempt to immediately discredit information that doesn't fit commonly accepted narratives.
Conspiracies are simply part of the human experience.
We already have proof of conspiracy in the Bush administration in the way they manufactured the evidence leading to the Iraq war. That was previously a "conspiracy theory".
To deny that conspiracies exist shows complete ignorance of human history. Human history is an endless line of conspiracies at the highest levels of power - coups overthrowing governments, the assassinations of kings and emporers, false flag military attacks etc etc...
The false flag attack is one of the essential tools in the militaries arsenal. The military mindset is "the ends justifies the means".
So it is utterly naive and ignorant to apply the term "conspiracy theory".
-Gonzo
How about what is clearly observable: the top 20 stories all move together.
Oh and if we're talking about WTC7 we should hear what one of the few individuals that was inside WTC7 for it's last remaining hours has to say:
WTC7 Survivor Barry Jennings Interview (Uncut).
-Gonzo
Now you've done it! I predict 200 responses.
My take: when the Twin Towers collapsed, WTC7 was engulfed in flames. You cook a building from the inside, it's going to soften the steel so that it sags and falls down. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict when it will go. The famous "pull" remark by Silverstein, when I've heard the recording, I thought he meant "pull out" of fighting the fires.
As much as I hate Bush and Cheney, I don't believe they had a conspiracy to plant explosives and blow up the WTC. It takes too many people doing too much work to keep it all silent. I'm a LIHOP (Let It Happen On Purpose) rather than a MIHOP (Made It Happen On Purpose). I think realPresident Cheney knew something was up with a terrorist action inside the U.S. He let it happen, thinking it would be a nasty multiple hijacking that would allow him to whip the American people into a state of fear so he could control them and eventually invade Iraq to steal the oil. But it blew up in his face, worse than he imagined. So the evil bastard had to scramble to cover up his negilgence.
That being said, Mrs. Bukko is a firm believer in the 9/11 conspiracy. I've heard all the arguments. I'm not persuaded, although I believe there's a lot we still don't know. I'm waiting for more evidence than I've seen so far.
I always thought buildings that size had sprinklers and stuff.
Guess not.
My take: when the Twin Towers collapsed, WTC7 was engulfed in flames. You cook a building from the inside, it's going to soften the steel so that it sags and falls down..
A few small problems with that theory.
Firstly, there was no raging inferno inside the building. That much is clear from the videos from multiple angles.
Secondly, the load tests on WTC steel in the lab showed that the steel did not weaken and sag.
Thirdly, even if the steel had sagged and given way it does not explain how the building collapsed at free fall speed. For a symmetrical collapse at free fall speed you need to instantaneously remove all support structures inside the building. That can only be done with demolition charges.
-Gonzo
I can't believe I keep coming back to this blog. Maybe this post will be it, sorry hasn't been good in months.....
I watched a building in Los Angeles burn for many hours and 14 stories. Of course, it did not have sprinklers, because it was under renovation. The fire was put out, and it did not collapse. It stands till this day. It was called the First Interstate Building at the time, and it had an almost iderntical design to the WTC.
My take: when the Twin Towers collapsed, WTC7 was engulfed in flames. You cook a building from the inside, it's going to soften the steel so that it sags and falls down...
Oh and one other thing. There's never been an example of a steel structured tower collapsing due to fire and there are plenty of examples of truly raging infernos that destroy everything except the steel scaffolding remains standing.
So that theory doesn't really hold any water at all.
NIST blamed the collapse on "thermal expansion". Thermal expansion occurs any time something is heated. Their black box computer models do not even come close to modeling the nature of the collapse!
If buildings could collapse so easily due to fire they would have to go and revise the entire building code!
It's outrageous.
-Gonzo
I can't believe I keep coming back to this blog. Maybe this post will be it, sorry hasn't been good in months......
If you have nothing to add it would be quite simple to simply skip the thread!
The most wildly unlikely conspiracy theory still remaims the official version. What are the chances that a network of sleeper cells could cause so much havoc undetected? If these amatuers can do this much harm, just imagine what the professionals are capable of.
Don't forget that the supporting testimony was obtained under torture. Torture is good for one thing only -- obtaining false confessions. The fact that torture was used further incriminates these bastards.
So building 7 was 'pulled' because its structural integrity was jeopardized? They were able to plan the demolition while the chaos of the plane crashes took place. They went into a structural unsound building and planted the detonations while all the chaos was going down?
What a joke. You have to be fool to believe that it wasn't pre-wired, which means they knew the attacks were coming.
i dunno, but when you think of all the strange shit that is going down now and has since this, and who was in there, SEC(ENRON records were destroyed inside) then you look at how it fell, you get a really creepy feeling, that's for sure. How deep does the rabbit hole go? The implications, are just too much to consider without delving into Twilight Zone scenarios.
The whole thing about that day was we had never seen buildings of that size under those exact conditions burn and collapse, so how would we know what could or couldn't happen? But, I always thought it was totally odd that it took under an hour for the first to fall, and just over an hour for the second. When I watched it happen on TV live, I remember thinking, those terrorists or whoever did this, must have put explosives inside to hasten the fall. Then, when you look at WTC-7, you just say WTF...
WTC7?
Want to know the truth about WTC7?
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO MOTIVATION WHATSOEVER TO BLOW UP WTC7!
TOOLS!
TARDS!!
DOLTS!!!
DOPES!!!!
Bush to Cheney: "Ya know, that's nice of those tools to fly into the Pentagon and WTC buildings so we can go to war and profit. But the hard working American people still might let that slide. Lets say we blow WTC7 ourselves to really piss people off, in spite of the tremendous risk involved, the evidence that may be found, and the endless scenarios that could go wrong."
"Great idea George. And what about the hot dog vendor out in the plaza? If we could get him too, that would justify an Iraqi invasion too."
DOPES!!!!
Neal, I think you share the sentiment of many readers here.
I can only watch and marvel at the blog owner implode and slowly allow his mental illness to take control.
Quite fascinating to witness his descent into madness, in front of the world for all to see.
Well at least Keith and Rosie have something in common. Maybe she will be his next crush.
:(
Do you lie in bed at night, awake, spinning these fantasies? Good Lord man, get a life. You drink too much kool-aid and the paranoid side of you has grown beyond control. Keep this up and you too can babble for the Daily Kos. Wow Keith, you're really starting to make me worry about you. You need to understand that Obama does NOT have your best interests at heart and move on with your life, dude.
Yes, they allowed or even gave the order for some olive skinned Saudis to strike with planes.
Yes, they brought down WTC via other means.
Yes, they are trying to reestablish despotism in America.
Hey, when you're rich and well connected and you go to Dubai, you go to Singapore, and child rape is legal, murder is legal, drug use is legal (for the rich) and you come home to the pesky middle class, whose only weapons are their education and political organization, you get pretty fucking pissed off by the restrictions.
They just want to be able to do in America what they do in the Gulf and South Asia.
What's up with WTC7?
I believe all 3 WTC buildings were wired for demolition. When the
3rd plane for WTC7 didn't make it, the only thing to do was demolish it to destroy the evidence (wiring and explosives).
There must be people who survived WTC7 who saw "Maintenance" activity (in the stairwells perhaps) prior to 9/11.
WTC 7 seems pretty suspicious, I guess even more distressing is that there already seems to be plenty of evidence to show that things were not as they seemed on that day.
Personally, I always thought it was pretty odd that NORAD had exercises planned for that very day involving a hijacked jetliner. When the first calls came in about the real hijacked planes, there were delays created because the control center believed it was part of the scheduled exercise. Just like these people to always be sowing the seeds of confusion.
My biggest fear is that the events put in motion on 9/11 are far from over.
How about what is clearly observable: the top 20 stories all move together.
You mean like the top floors of WTC1 moved together as the collapse started about 18 floors below the top. Like that?
That is completely weird and suspicious how that WTC7 just fell down so orderly and gracefully. Way too perfect to be caused by anything else but by planned demolition. Very, very suspicious. Hey, we still don't know the truth about Kennedy's assination, so I think human beings can keep horrible secrets/truths to the grave. The NeoCons are fucking crazy and I would not put one evil thing past them. NOT one thing.
WTC 7 would be the largest skyscraper in most American small to mid-sized cities. The building came down in free fall fashion in less than 20 seconds. Thermite was used to melt the steel which was integral to the controlled demolition. WTC 7 was the main control bunker for the 911 attacks and was the final structure destroyed (after 5 PM that day) to destroy all evidence. When one says Neo-cons they really mean Zionists. 911 was an Israeli/Zionist false flag event to "create a crisis, blame the muslims" and use the American military as an attack dog against Iraq, which at that time, was one of Israels biggest foes. When one says that 9-11 "was an inside job" this is somewhat ture but also not. There are rouge factions (Zionists-Neocons)within our government that don't have American best interests and are mainly loyal to Israel. (Some see Israel as the new America, similar to how some Europeans may of felt about the new land some 400 years ago).
What took you so long Keith? Don't you think its funny how WTC 7 is never in the news? That building was huge!
Southpark got it right. Nobody knows what happened on 9/11. The government cannot admit ignorance.
"It's time we retired the "conspiracy theory" label. It's a lazy ad-hominem attempt to immediately discredit information that doesn't fit commonly accepted narratives. Conspiracies are simply part of the human experience."
Well, hell, yeah! A conspiracy killed Julius Caesar. A conspiracy killed Jesus Christ. Conspiracies are like gossip - a darker part of our human nature. So why should we discount conspiracy theories? They should be investigated thoroughly, since where there is smoke there is pretty much ALWAYS fire. The demo expert sealed it for me. He had to shake his head at the thought that the controlled demo of Building 7 could be achieved that fast and in a burning building. Come on, people. The Matrix exists. Let's quit kidding ourselves that we can believe what we see and hear. There was an existing plan to bring down that building. Why? We need to find out.
I really don't know whats behind 911. All I know is, like another commenter here said, false flag attacks are not unheard of. I for one sure as hell don't trust the government, much less the bush/cheney administration, thats for damn sure! I guess what I really would like to see, but this won't happen for decades yet, is a real investigation, a serious one, not done by that zelikow guy or any other bush/cheney insider. Let them take on the loose change arguments & people head on, heck involve the 911 truthers in the investigation! Sigh not gonna happen for a looong time though, will it?
Until then I guess we all make up our own minds with the evidence available. I am leaning more towards the conspiracy side not just because bush/cheney have zero credibility in my book, but because it seems they had motivation to stage a false flag attack. I mean come on, the bush family has been involved with the saudis and the cia for decades, and it just so happens a cia trained, saudi business partner of the bush family set up the 911 attacks? Really? Again if bush had any credibilty...
-JDF
Of course the WTC7 question is the loosest brick in the wall, and if it comes down, you have many many unanswered questions.
Sorry coincidence theorists, you can't argue this just by saying we're crazy for thinking something is amiss.
Go to your back yard with some steel and rebar, pour some jet fuel on it and light it up and tell me if it melts or even gets the slightest bit softer.
Ever wonder why a metal cutting torch needs an oxygen bottle? They don't do air/acetylene welding guys.
Of course, this has never been argued scientifically in a country that a weird love/hate relationship with science. I have a PhD in combustion engineering and have not seen one scientifically argued publication in the academic press explaining the WTC7 building coming down.
Interesting account by Barry Jennings; too bad he's dead now.
There are others equally ignored/dismissed; usually in impatient, insistent voices that we decide Right Now what import their recollections might have, and whether or not they might be lying.
For some kooky conspiracy theorist reason; right?
The city emergency command center was in the basement of that building, if i recall correctly. it serves to reason that other government offices were housed there - the former intelligence agencies, etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if wtc7 went down when the fires hit some sort of fbi arsenal. Perhaps the gov doesn't want people to know that they keep enough explosives to bring down a city building in, um, city buildings..?
If you feel this blog is over the hill, stop reading. I'm still entertained and find the size of each news item perfect for long run readership.
That said, jeebus keith, the world has enough WTC nut jobs. I like it when they're where I am not. If you think the goobermint caused WTC 7, see Guberville Smack's post.
While I agree with GS, I'll indulge: What if W let the WTC attack happen thinking there would be moderate damage so he rigged WTC 7 for collapse in order to assure enough carnage to go to war. There's a chance that happened. The chance is somewhere between 0% and 1.4%.
There was a lot of information inside WTC 7. There was a plausible motive, let's not forget that.
I KNOW that the Official Conspiracy Theory as told by the 9/11 commission has holes in every facet of the story.
The problem with the "conspiracy theorists" is that they point out these holes, but can't form a salient story. Just ask one of them. And there is a great division between those who think the U.S. Gov't was simply complicit and those who think Cheney and Bush were in on the planning.
Either way it's a deep scar that won't ever quite heal right. What we need to decide is if the War On Terror is starting to resemble the Domino Theory as a false premise. My argument is that it indeed is. It's time to roll back the Patriot Act, stop treating our own citizens like terrorists and think very carefully about how many troops we have positioned around the world.
"... crazed Islamic cult members with boxcutters were responsible that day."
Substitute 'Islamic' with neo-con.
Substitute 'boxcutters' with: a zionist agenda.
The truth will set you free.
One more thing, if you think Obammy is going to allow this investigation to be re-opened, you're nuts.
It would take a real Liberty Movement type in the Hwhite House to even consider it.
bush: "well...you know dick...i just don't think the two WTC buildings will be enough."
cheney: "you don't?"
bush: "hell naw...why don't we just put some extra explosives in the little one...the one right next to them."
cheney: "ummmm...i guess we could."
idiots
oh and btw there was only one gunman too.
Nothing here so far. Still going with crazed cult member hijackers with box cutters in my book, and WTC 7 fell down after a fire. Even though that's one weird thing to happen.
The question in my mind is if the CIA and Cheney knew the attack would happen and didn't stop it, thus benefiting Halliburton and the Military Industrial Complex.
Sure was convenient.
Cheney must have creamed his pants that day. For the wrong reasons.
The fires in WTC 7 were caused by federal agents destroying 'inflamatory' evidence prior to the planned implosion.
Gonzo,
As insane and crazy as your theory is, It would be awesome to suck the gratification out of the Arab world and it would prove that they aren’t even capable of pulling off something as stupid as flying planes into a building and causing real damage,
Just imagine how pissed off they would be if a formal report comes out that states 9/11 was an inside job and all the gazillions of dollars in oil money spent on training and brainwashing homicide squads wasn’t able to deliver a serious punch.
Talk about humiliating the Arabs even further.
9/11 was an MIC 'directive' for the purpose of radically increasing defense spending.
Sorry guys, that's not the way logic works. You don't make up an impossible excuse for something to happen just because it fits with the rest of it. This is exactly why the WTC7 story is the most important flawed part of the story. It's the loose piece of yarn in the sweater - pull on it and see what happens. Right now the only thing holding up the pathetic explanation of how it fell is that it fits with the rest of the story of what happened that day.
Problems with the logic:
-There was a very small fire in WTC7 when it went down.
-Nothing hit it.
-You can't rig a building to be demolished in an hour or two.
I agree that investigating it would be a complete disaster for the United States global hegemnony (interally and externally actually) and for the stability of this regime, it's better to ignore the truth. However, no intelligent person can just shrug and say "it must have been the fire in there". If you can deny this because it just hurts your brain too much to consider the alternatives, then you can deny just about anything.
From there, if faith, not reason, is your reason for believing things, then you're really "with the terrorists".
"Go to your back yard with some steel and rebar, pour some jet fuel on it and light it up and tell me if it melts or even gets the slightest bit softer."
My God.
You have got to be kidding me. This has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. So you think you can recreate the temperatures of a fully tanked jet airliner flying at 500 mph into a fully furnished skyscraper by lighting up your bbq?
Guess if you can seriously believe the government can contract out a demolition job for two of the largest skyscrapers and WTC7 without raising suspicion, plus have demolition crews conduct this level of engineering secretly under the nose of thousands of people...then you can believe your bbq thesis also.
I recommend you watch "Angels & Demons". The world of Church and Government conspiracies. Some people watching actually believe one person could simply steal anti-matter (whatever for)and kidnap 4 Cardinals out of the Vatican whenever they please.
Where is Dopes when you need him?
DOPES!!!!
I am going to have to go with the people who call themselves Jews (but really are not).
I think Wind Farmer has it right.
It seemed everyone missed his point.
The plane that went down in a field in Pennsylvania was probably headed to WTC7. Someone planned to have a plane fly into WTC7 and then have it come down like the twin towers.
There is no evidence that would suggests that the Pennsylvania plane was headed to Washington DC, namely the White House. That is clearly a head fake.
WTC buildings were made to withstand a plane crash and any large fire. WTC was built out of steel, concrete and asbestos. None of which burns easily.
9/11 commission wasn't a real investigation. Just another head fake.
False flag attacks do happen. Tonkin Bay was a false flag attack to escalate the Vietnam war.
Here's what happened:
The CIA intercepted the terrorist's plan and Cheneyburton pondered whether to stop it or use it to his benefit. Cheneyburton saw the usefulness and joined in the big plan. The charges were set by CIA experts and timed to go off accordingly. Records were destroyed, a convenient enemy was quickly declared, the the money poured in. Damn the collateral damage. Simple, really. Bush wasn't in on it though. He was just following orders, hence the befuddled look on his face when he was notified on 9/11.
You forgot one choice on that 9/11 poll:
D. 9/11 was bad, but not NEARLY as bad as all the other things that are allowed to happen EVERY YEAR here:
- thousands of lung cancer deaths
- thousands of gun deaths
- thousands of REGULAR flu deaths
- thousands of DUI deaths
- thousands of deaths from lack of health care
- thousands of deaths from medical mistakes and malpractice
- thousands of deaths from tainted food, unsanitary restaurants, food processing plants, farming procedures and public places
- thousands of deaths from defective products, including known flaw that are allowed because it's cheaper to pay the death benefits than fix them
- thousands of deaths from insurance coverage denial, because it's cheaper to deny coverage that to honor it
GUESS WHAT? It's a dangerous and ultimately 100% fatal world. Creating MORE terrorism by bankrupting the middle class with imperialism and sending all your money to terrorists in the oil states will not save you forever.
There doesn't need to be ANY conspiracy--we're doing an EXCELLENT job of happily killing OURSELVES!
For all you conspiracy haters. Here's the latest conspiracy:
The world wide economic rally is a suckers rally. Everyone will be led to believe that the economy has bottomed and reinvests back into the markets. There will be another round of defaults and stock market/asset collapse of even greater magnitude than Sept 08. The goal is to put the world into a economic depression, paving the way for a new world economic model.
here's the conspiracy clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjjaGPMrK90
Enjoy
I love the weak minded uncritical idiots who say stuff like,
"Duh, well gee, this OTHER building burned and didn't collapse."
Um, der, not all buildings are built the same. Not all buildings are 100 stories tall. Not all buildings were built the same year or decade. Not all buildings use the same fire retardant. Not all building burn using HIGH OCTANE AVIATION FUEL. Not all buildings burn the same way. Not all fires are the same.
I guess since my friend had testicular cancer 5 years ago, that MUST mean that either I'm GUARANTEED to get it, because I'm also a guy and all guys will get it, OR, I definitely WON'T get it because it's five years too late.
I guess because I drove 80 on the highway the other day and didn't get a ticket, I can do that every day and never get a ticket.
You feeble-minders ought to actually do the effort to INFORM yourselves, starting with knowing how WTC was STRUCTURED. Geez.
I think just like in aircraft crashes they can test for the residue of explosives.
That should have been pretty easy to test for with WTC7. So, they have scientific evidence or they don't.
My guess is they don't, or they probably would've gotten around to mentioning it. Oh, and did you know that LBJ arranged the assignation of JFK? Really!
Ask Pelosi she knows
WTC 7 contained the Enron investigative files.
End of investigation.
We all know the following has happened in this country:
Gulf of Tonkin incident
MK-ULTRA
Watergate
Inflation (shadow stats)lies
Watergate
WMDs in Iraq
So we know the government lies and covers up things to its people. They have been caught in the past. Why is it so hard for us to believe that they did it on 9/11?
I don't know what happened on that day. I really don't want to know. But what I do know is that there was also an anthrax scare one month after that was supposedly from Iraqi anthrax. Well it turns out it was anthrax manufactured here in the good ole USA. And the one guy who they finally decided was behind the whole thing killed himself.
Gosh that seems to happen quite a bit in that situation, huh?
What I do know is that the government will conceal the truth for its benefit. I do know that factions of our government don't care about the law and what is right.
In that situation, anything is possible.
Nothing here so far. Still going with crazed cult member hijackers with box cutters in my book, and WTC 7 fell down after a fire. Even though that's one weird thing to happen..
I guess you didn't watch the films I posted which clearly show how the "hijackers" were enabled entry into the US by the CIA and resided on US military bases. Funny how every islamo-fascist terrorist cell has been enabled by the FBI or CIA.
-Gonzo
For those of you that can't comprehend the government doing something like this you have to at least go read the declassified "Operation Northwoods" documents which are a clear case of the military planning false flag attacks in the US to provide a pretext for invading Cuba. The operation was signed off by the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US military but shut down by JFK.
This is historical fact. It's not something you can simply deny or call it a "conspiracy theory".
Operation Northwoods.
Just read the damned thing.
You also need to understand that the Neocon think tank "Project for the New American Century" called for a "catastrophic, catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor" to bring about it's revolution in military affairs. The think tank included Cheney and Rumsfeld as members and this document was released well before 9/11. Cheney and Rumsfeld have been government insiders going back to the Gerald Ford days.
-Gonzo
There must be people who survived WTC7 who saw "Maintenance" activity (in the stairwells perhaps) prior to 9/11..
There was a power down and maintenance work over a weekend in the weeks before 9/11.
Power down in the WTC weekend before 9/11.
-Gonzo
WTC7?
Want to know the truth about WTC7?
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO MOTIVATION WHATSOEVER TO BLOW UP WTC7!
TOOLS!
TARDS!!
DOLTS!!!
DOPES!!!!.
I love how guys like you who are completely ignorant of the details of 9/11 engage in mindless name calling while those that are at least suspicious about the events of 9/11 can conduct a meaningful dialogue.
I guess that says a lot about the validity of your arguments.
-Gonzo
Here's a tidbit...
.
Richard Gage on KMPH Fox 26 in Fresno CA.
">..You mean like the top floors of WTC1 moved together as the collapse started about 18 floors below the top. Like that?..."Yes. Which means the collapse there started at floor 29 or lower.
How did burning debris from "18 floors below the top" of WTC1 get inside WTC7 at that level?
"...Ever wonder why a metal cutting torch needs an oxygen bottle?..."Heh.
"..."conspiracy theorists"...can't form a salient story..."Granted, but you imply that it is possible to do so with incomplete knowledge if their theories were true.
When you lay out ALL the suspicious, undisputed facts end-to-end, the sum is ludicrous.
The blanket dismissal you just verbalized is much more bang for the buck than debating point-by-point.
OK expert scientists. Jet fuel doesn't burn much hotter than a candle if you get it to the stoichiometric mixture fraction. Sorry, no magic there. Not enough room here to teach grade 12 over again. So, the hottest you can get from adiabatic combustion of the hydrocarbon with air is what is called the adiabatic flame temperature (and most uncontrolled combustion is much cooler than this because there is nothing to control the perfect mixture of air and fuel). It's way lower than the temperature you need to affect the mechanical properties of steel. It's not up for debate, sorry, unless you're also into debating smoking is good for you or dinosaurs were put there by Satan to fool sinners.
From there, the first law of thermodynamics says that the heat can only dispurse from it's hottest point. Another annoying bit of science but not up for debate my friends.
As for the comment about high octane jet fuel, I can't help you if you don't even know what jet fuel is. There are plenty of public schools that allow adults to go back and get a high school diploma, it's never too late.
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1555&category=Science
Anon said:
‘Substitute 'Islamic' with neo-con.
Substitute 'boxcutters' with: a zionist agenda.’
Psst,
Approx 3 minutes prior to the second plane crash I saw a Hasidic woman about 7’11” tall, arms like tree trunks, wearing a wide brimmed hat with beige trench coat, mirrored oversized shades, and large shiny badge covering her perfectly plump left breast with engraved initials AIPAC.
Both of her high heeled shoes had knife like edges of polished stainless steel, each of them shooting Ninja stars as she did the cat walk in the world trade center complex.
It is at that moment when I noticed a piano wire coming from between her perfectly curved legs, calf muscles the size of basket balls, then followed the wire with my eyes to the other end which connected to a mainframe computer standing outside on milk crates next to a van with tinted windows lots of little red and green blinking lights, there were fish-lines running in zig zag formation to all the buildings in the site.
Like a cat pouncing at its prey this Hasidic lady leaps straight up about 98 feet comes back down bounces around in a dance like performance then immediately begins doing cartwheels exposing brand spanking new Victoria secret, custom, bullet-proof cherry red silk undies.
It was all shakin from then on.
I’m not saying she pulled the switch,
all I’m saying is that we need to further investigate as to how incredibly mighty and powerful just a single member of the woooooo zionist agenda is.
Do the zionist agenda have Oil fields in their backyards?
Anonymous said...
‘I am going to have to go with the people who call themselves Jews (but really are not).’
You think the Mormons did it?
Hmmm, you may be on to something here
I'm going to hear the A&E for 9/11 Truth presentation tonight at our local university. Funny how Cheney has been on all the talk-shows lately promoting what a great job HIS administration did keeping us safe for a few short years. Reminds me of the movie "A Few Good Men" where the line "we save lives" justified everything. God save us.
I’m guessing you guys also believe in the nonsense that the Japanese attacked Peal Harbor,
Yeah, like that is even remotely possible.
What were those ships doing in the water in the first place?
Dig a little deeper and you find it was an inside job to raise the price of Sushi.
After carefully reviewing images of that supposedly attack; scientist and scholars agree there was a fake Jew standing in the background with a glass jar of Kosher Wasabi.
It was definitely planned in Washington
Gonzo,
Puleeze stop with pointing to other peoples writings.
If you cannot articulate a clear story of your own, then you don’t really understand what your story is.
We are all very capable of Googleling and researching what we want to know.
Are you one of those paid by the Saudis to keep the kings image clean?
Keith...why do you post garbage like this. Your blog is growing tiresome.
7 collapsed because of gravity. The heated and softened steele structure could no longer support it's weight.
Sprinklers? Yes. Towers 1 and 2 had sprinklers as well. If you break the stand-pipe and feed lines the fire suppression system will not work.
9-11 was a lesson in the safety of tall buildings, not an inside job.
I have a conspiracy brewing and I'm not sure if I'm right or not. Former Vice President Dick Cheney has been on a PR campaign defending their administrations domestic and foreign policies for several months now. One major underlying theme is that Barrack Obama is making our country less safe and jeapardizing our national security.
He basically threatened President Obama in his speech by saying "I would advise the administration to think very carefully about the course ahead." This phrase really caught my attention and made me think of the following:
If we believe that 9/11 was an inside job, could it be possible that another attack is actually in the works? I connect the dots as I realize that the Neocons "lost" their power, superficially anyway, and could regain it with another attack. The war corporations will further profit from expansion of continued war. The intelligence apparatus is aligned most with those that fuel them more power. Our country has previously been controlled by major sacred cows of the intelligence world, who you better believe still wield considerable power. Cheney and others can claim that we were warned time and time again that an attack was a direct result of a failed DEMOCRATIC administration, thereby putting Neocons back in play. Barrack Obama fullfills his unknown role as the fall guy, and coincidentally the first and probably last African American President, would be blamed for the entire operation.
But there's more at stake than that. If the corporations, intelligence agencies, and central banks who collapsed America to the point we find ourselves now succeed... the final nail in the coffin of America could be accomplished with another terrorist attack. Because if you think our economy is bad now, consider what the effects of another attack would do to us. We would be FINISHED.
Think about that for a moment, I keep saying that the only way to destroy America is not through direct war but through financial war. The beauty of it is that Americans can do nothing about it but watch it unfold around them without a shot fired. This country is more fragile than we can imagine and has zero endurance to further attack from either angle.
"Like a cat...this Hasidic lady leaps straight up about 98 feet comes back down bounces around in a dance like performance then immediately begins doing cartwheels exposing brand spanking new Victoria secret, custom, bullet-proof cherry red silk undies."
DOOD!
That's WAY HOT!!
Was this, like, some kinda pole dance contest??
AWESOME!
How about what is clearly observable: the top 20 stories all move together.
--------------------------------
perhaps the floors below the top 20 started the collapse and the top 20 were structurally sound.
bush: "well...you know dick...i just don't think the two WTC buildings will be enough."
cheney: "you don't?"
bush: "hell naw...why don't we just put some extra explosives in the little one...the one right next to them."
cheney: "ummmm...i guess we could."
idiots
----------------------------
bush: "hell ya! and we should blow it hours after the other towers collapse"
cheney: "why"
bush: "dunno, maybe it will scare everyone because they will have thought all the falling down was over with? or maybe to keep people from running in and getting killed like we plan on doing in the other 2 towers"
cheney: "ok.... perhaps we could some cia as fire fighters and have they run up to a camera and say "they are going to blow wtc7!"
'...exposing brand spanking new Victoria secret, custom, bullet-proof cherry red silk undies.'
No more "Dancing with the Stars" for you...
Hmmm...so the plane that went down over Pennsylvania was meant for WTC 7...
ok..that makes sense. The demo charges were ready and waiting to go off just like the other two buildings, but the masterminds didn't count on the brave heroes of Flight 93. Damn. If only Americanos weren't so addled with food and tv. They should have caught that.
Was there a certain department at the Pentagon that needed to be blown up too? Or was that just a red herring to throw people off? And why would the CIA permit or direct an attack at the Pentagon...unless..it's like the case of the husband who wounds himself after killing his family to make it look like he couldn't have committed the crime.
Gonzo,
Puleeze stop with pointing to other peoples writings.
If you cannot articulate a clear story of your own, then you don’t really understand what your story is..
Oh f*ck off. Seriously. I've made numerous posts explaining things as I see them with references to back up my assertions. That's what you do when you present an argument. You don't just spout a bunch of BS from your dome.
When you are ready to discuss the facts then let me know.
-Gonzo
"those that are at least suspicious about the events of 9/11can conduct a meaningful dialogue."
Meaningful dialogue?
Giving yourself a lot of credit there. Anyone can cut and paste a bunch of conspiracy dribble from the internet.
Truth be told, this whole thread is a joke! The best part of this form of "ENTERTAINMENT" is that tinfoilers like you actually believe it and take it seriously.
And you have been posting this 9/11garbage for months on this blog. I suggest you get help and stay off the Kool-Aid awhile.
FREAK!
Watching the barry Jennings video, I think he's not telling the truth. How can he have bad knees and crawl to safety 20 blocks? How can fireman run away, then return? How can he see 1/2 a building is distroyed from looking out of a 22 story window that he broke out with a fire extingwisher when the building is already beginning to collapse? How was he able to walk through once was a huge lobby of the world trade center? He couldnt, because of the red-hot metal and rubble, let alone breath the air.
He is a plant.
However, I do believe the "puffs of smoke" from explosions when the buildings were collapsing. I saw a different video of it, and indeed it looked very suspicious. I do believe it was a planned explosion- planned to extract insurance money for the owner of the buildings who recently re-insured/increased the insurance payout for both WTC1 & WFC2 buildings.
I don't know. Maybe it was the government, maybe not.
'...exposing brand spanking new Victoria secret, custom, bullet-proof cherry red silk undies.'
Bill O'Reilly, is that your post?
Hannity??
"The ground level winds at KSC were sustained at 54 mph with gusts to 64 mph. The roof of the 525-foot tall Vehicle Assembly Building saw sustained winds of 82 mph and gusts to 93 mph. By comparison, Frances gusted to 103 mph.
The VAB lost an additional 30 side panels during Jeanne, adding to the 820 that blew off during Frances. Each panel is 4 x 16 feet. "
VAB AT Kennedy Space Center, same construction pretty much as the WTC buildings.
Lost it's outer panels like the WTC buildings did but did not collapse. One of the theory points I have heard is the loss of the facade on the outside of the WTC buildings helped the collapse. If that is true, the VAB should have collapsed but did not.
If you look at the videos from the WTC, you will notice BLACK smoke coming from the towers. Black smoke means incomplete/rich combustion. If something is burning completly, there is little to no smoke. Turn on a oxy/acet torch to test this. If you turn on the acetylene only (as you have to for lighting the torch) and light it, it burns but does so very poorly. The smoke coming off is black and so thick it strings and will stick to things around the torch tip. Once you open the oxygen, the flame changes to a brighter glow as the combustion becomes more complete. The smoke goes away and all that is left is bright light and lots of heat.
Now, you have another dink in the door of the official story. At higher altitudes, the oxygen content in the air is less. Being the buildings were burning off the ground, the oxygen was at lower level than what a fire has at ground level. This would all lead to a "rich" burn as no extra oxygen was being injected into the structure. Rich burns are not very hot, sure there is flame so there is heat, but since the combustion is not complete the efficiency of the burn is lowered thus extracting less usable heat from the process.
Now, it's possible fire alone caused the falls BUT in my opinion it is hard to explain how the chain of events caused THREE buildings to fail exactly the same way. Why would one building not fall over sideways? Why would one not collapse and topple over half way down? If you watch the videos, one of the two WTC towers starts to fall over the side but somehow turns to dust as the floors below it suddenly start to "pancake". How does a tower with it's top falling over (center of gravity) turn to dust while falling in mid air? How does the lower parts of the tower pancake from excessive upper loads, when the top of the tower was falling over the side of the tower?
To assume the tower should fall like a house of cards means the tower was simply stacked without rivets/bolts/welds. If it did simply collapse like a tower of cards and it WAS bolted/riveted/welded, then whoever built the WTC towers should be up under a jail. Either way, the investigation needs to be opened again and done by someone other than the government.
It's like me shooting someone and then the police let me investigate the incident myself........and everyone buys the official story because I told you I did not shoot anyone and I proved that I did not, because the evidence I gathered proved I did nothing wrong......
"How can he have bad knees and crawl to safety 20 blocks?"
I can lift a car up if my kid is stuck under it. Cut my foot off and then point a gun at me and tell me to run or die and I'll set a new speed record. When afraid, humans can do incredible things.
It's way lower than the temperature you need to affect the mechanical properties of steel.WOW, stupid fool I guess steel is impervious. Even under hundreds of thousands of tons of load.
I guess that's why EVERY BIT OF STRUCTURAL STEEL I'VE EVER SEEN HAS FIRE RETARDANT SPRAYED ALL OVER IT.
Dumbass.
"It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses about HALF of its strength at 650°C"
"Nearly every large building has a redundant design that allows for loss of one primary structural member, such as a column. However, when multiple members fail, the shifting loads eventually overstress the adjacent members and the collapse occurs like a row of dominoes falling down. "
"the building was not able to withstand the intense heat of the jet fuel fire. While it was impossible for the fuel-rich, diffuse-flame fire to burn at a temperature high enough to melt the steel, its quick ignition and intense heat caused the steel to lose at least half its strength and to deform, causing buckling or crippling. This weakening and deformation caused a few floors to fall, while the weight of the stories above them crushed the floors below, initiating a domino collapse. "
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html
Let's see, plane hits building. Caught on video. Eye witnesses.
Which scenario is more plausible?
A. Plane impact and fire caused structural failure.
B. Government conspiracy and explosives simultaneously planted, and no one's come forward as a witness or with any evidence or with any remorse or death-bed confession.
Gee, MUST be the conspiracy!!!!! (Only for the mentally infirm. Apparently, MY high school was MUCH MUCH better than YOURS. It taught me how to THINK CRITCALLY, not fantasize. I guess that's why my high school was written up in the national press when I was going there, as being one of the best in the country.)
Guberville Smack said:
So you think you can recreate the temperatures of a fully tanked jet airliner flying at 500 mph into a fully furnished skyscraper by lighting up your bbq?
My question is, did a fully tanked airliner hit WTC7 at 500 mph? WTC7 was a fairly new building in NYC, where I imagine when it was built had some pretty tight safety standards, right? How many buildings have collapsed on cue due to a "small fire"? Some things even gotta make your brain go hmmmm...
have a good weekend!
-JDF
Truth be told, this whole thread is a joke! The best part of this form of "ENTERTAINMENT" is that tinfoilers like you actually believe it and take it seriously.
And you have been posting this 9/11garbage for months on this blog. I suggest you get help and stay off the Kool-Aid awhile..
OK, thanks for proving that you are a complete dribbling moron, Guberville.
Let's assume I'm just a crazy ass kook and 9/11 was coordinated and executed by those arabs hiding in caves.
Let's take a break from 9/11 and look at Operation Northwoods which is detailed in declassified documents from the US Army and stored in the National Archives. We're not talking about cut and pasted "conspiracy" info here. These are official government documents.
Are you still with me, Guberville? Try to concentrate and I'll attempt to keep this as simple as possible for your feeble mind.
Read those documents and you'll see that the US military planned to stage terrorist attacks AGAINST US citizens to build a pretext for military operations against Cuba.
Did you understand the above sentence? Read it again until it sinks into your dense skull.
So there you go we have clear undeniable evidence that the government has planned false flag terrorist attacks against the US public all detailed in their very own documents.
That wasn't so hard was it?
Is that crazy? Is that a "conspiracy theory"?
What do you think of that?
Do you have anything of value to offer at all?
-Gonzo
1998- NY Spend 15.1 million re-enforcing WTC7.
So what gives?
No pun intended.
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/13/nyregion/preparing-for-worst-giuliani-is-to-build-blastproof-shelter.html
So Keith, are you telling us that these powerful groups that can pull a 9-11 went away, scared of your messiah? I mean, wouldn't such group be powerful enough to pick a POTUS for all of you, or control what's on MSNBC daily?
Do you really think that now it's all tip-top because the messiah put these well-funded-powerful groups to run? Do you really think that you elect presidents at free will?
Please, try hard, I know that common sense and logic is a rare commodity in the US now and especially to obamanoids and MSNBC puppets.
Please, I beg you to read the book "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" by Robert Cialdini. You need to open your eyes, and I promise you that you'll change for better.
Just go to amazon.com to read the reviews and description. Some of you really need to find out how people behind BO, corporations, and media program you to be a puppet at their command. (including you Keith)
"My take: when the Twin Towers collapsed, WTC7 was engulfed in flames. You cook a building from the inside, it's going to soften the steel so that it sags and falls down. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict when it will go."
The above statement proves that you're totally ignorant about steel structures in buildings. No building ever collapsed in history, like a pancake, because of fire. That day 3 collapsed, while #7 wasn't even hit and had minor fire on two floors.
I believe that you saw recently the skyscraper in China that burned all night and didn't collapse.
Here's another what's up...
What's up with bankers lending money to people who don't have a prayer of repaying? What's up with the securitized debt (MBS, CMBS) being rated AAA? What's up with no doc loans, what's with pick a payment loans, what's with the bubble deniers...including Greenspan, what's with all the NAR lies, lies, lies? It's as if the economy itself was being wired for demolition. Would YOU lend money to someone who couldn't repay you? I guess you would if someone guaranteed (co-signed) the loan...like the FED or the Treasury.
I think this WTC7 post is very appropriate. I think our economy is as wired for demolition as WTC7.
I also appreciate Gonzo's posts/links.
People the world over have been trying to get others to pay attention to this shit for years. Good to know some are finally waking up. It's a rigged game folks. Get it through your heads, it was an inside job. WTC7 was clearly a demo. I think all of us can honestly agree on that.
Can fire alone take down a skyscraper? Supposedly it's happened three times in recorded history...looks like a job for Mythbusters!
Actually there is a perfectly benign explanation for the buildings being prewired for demolition that I've never heard expressed; it would be excellent insurance for the other nearby buildings. Think of the damage one of those towers would have done if it went timber and you can start to imagine the fire chief (who's employees predicted WTC7's collapse) having access to remote demolition switches for all Manhattan skyscrapers.
BTW, Gonzo; HST would be proud. That's right man, don't take any shit from these swine.
Goldbug, those puffs of "smoke" are sporadic bursts of compressed air as it escapes from weak points in the facade. When a 100 story building collapses, the air is pressurized beneath it. Like an accordion.
Also, a steel framed building can collapse from a fire if the protective fire-safing material is removed from the steel -- perhaps jarred loose from the impact of a passenger jet.
9/11 was not a conspiracy.
So they raised WTC 7. What is the big deal of this I don't get it. The building was unstable so it was taken down. Makes perfect sense to control the fall like they did.
Happens all of the time.
"Is that crazy? Is that a "conspiracy theory"?
What do you think of that?
Do you have anything of value to offer at all?"
LOL!
Er, the question wasn't if there is any such thing as a conspiracy theory, was it?
Dribble on. I am sure you know much more than I do about cyborgs and other such things of "value".
Here's the brave 10:25 anon's temperature vs steel stiffness:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/young-modulus-d_773.html
Besides being wrong, as the graph shows, (your theory only works if somehow the building was built with a zero safety factor and somehow didn't blow down in the last strong wind) , if it were gradually weakening from the miniscule fire in WTC7, the building would gradually show deformation and what is called metal creep, so whoever you are, even your capital letters don't make the stuff you pull out of your @$$ right.
To the guy who said they demo'd the building: that takes several days to prepare assuming you arrive on site with all the required explosives ordered weeks in advance. It also needs to be planned in advance with the engineering drawings of the building.
Some things even gotta make your brain go hmmmm...
have a good weekend!
Thanks. Have a great weekend.
No, my brain hasn't done sh*t.
Haven't given it much thought at all.
Congratulations on the Lakers for winning one heck of a series against the Nuggets.
Keefer,
For someone who makes comments supporting 'settled science' and things like evolution, you really let your brain go on holiday when it comes to your conclusion of WTC 7.
Steel frame buildings do not collapse due to fire. And they definitely do not collapse at free fall speed. It's just not possible scientifically.
If buildings really were like this nobody would ever live or work in a high rise. It would be too risky.
As for Anon 10:52 you may realize that the people paid to explain the WTC collapse had to keep tweaking their model until it could 'explain' why a building will fall perfectly into it's own footprint at free fall speeds (talking about WTC 1 & 2 now) and they did many revisions before coming up with the pancake theory. Which is just one model built to fit the official story.
The model never explained WTC 7.
Keith- why don't you do a double poll? Find out who has science & engineering degrees and then ask them if WTC 7 came down due to controlled demolitions vs a neighboring fire.
Let's settle this here once and for all.
My take- the buildings WTC 1, WTC 2 & WTC 7 were all pre-wired for explosives. I think the govt knew about the plot and let it happen, made sure the buildings were coming down for sure. Don't know why.
For sure it was an opportunity of a lifetime and they took it.
But forget the explanation. Follow the data first. Let the data set you free.
-Mike H
Thanks. Have a great weekend.
No, my brain hasn't done sh*t.
Haven't given it much thought at all.
Congratulations on the Lakers for winning one heck of a series against the Nuggets..
Guberville Smack - the perfect example of the new age arrogant American who absolutely revels in his ignorance.
-Gonzo
Mike - WTC7 is not settled science in my mind. I'm open to the idea it was brought down, and that 9/11 was a Cheney conspiracy. Just haven't seen a compelling case for WTC7 with explosives vs. fire. Or reason why they'd want to take WTC7 down. Still looks like cult members with box cutters to me on 1 and 2, and a fire at 7. Even if Cheney had so much to gain.
We need another 9/11 investigation, knowing what we know now about Cheney. But on what happened that day, I'd still vote for cult members and box cutters. No explosives necessary.
"...I love the weak minded uncritical idiots who say stuff like...Not all building burn using HIGH OCTANE AVIATION FUEL..."Me too. Anybody that knows spit about flying got a good chuckle out of that.
"...Jet fuel doesn't burn much hotter than a candle..."But what about HIGH OCTANE AVIATION FUEL?
{snicker}
"Guberville Smack - the perfect example of the new age arrogant American who absolutely revels in his ignorance."
This person is like the last guest at a party that you just can't get rid of.
I will give due attention to things that are worth my time, thank you. There are plenty of topics on this blog I find interesting. This thread has been fun though.
As for the arrogance part, I wasn't the one claiming to have all this insight to "truth".
And try not to shove too much 9/11 crap on threads that are not about conspiracies. If you can help yourself.
Keith,
Thanks for responding to me and sorry if my first paragraph in the last post was a bit harsh.
I know you are more of a social sciences type of guy so don't blame you too much about not knowing the difference between explosives vs fire to take down a steel framed high rise. You would need to know about materials science and engineering and you and 99% of Americans don't know nor care about that.
I guess that is what is so frustrating for me. People don't think and don't care to learn. That's why the grifters in power get away with this sh*t over and over again. WTC bldgs being brought down, the TARP, the TALF, etc. It's so damn depressing. I suspect that's why most people who are in-the-know, adapt by joining the house and cheating the sheeple, rather than trying to fight it. It's a lonely, hopeless fight. Better to game the system I suppose.
Keefer, if a non direct plane strike ancilliary fire can take down, within seconds, a 47 story structure and pulverize it to dust- would you ever set foot in a high rise again? I live in a 9 story condo and would never live in a building with more than a few floors if buildings came down like this. I live in Bangkok where high rises are everywhere and contstruction practices are often dubious. I've never seen a building come down. Even if the building is severely distressed (stopped construction in 1997, 40 stories high, with just a steel and concrete skeleton, exposed to the elements and occasional internal fire by vandals, it will only lean slighly.... that's about it. I don't know why people can't use their brain on engineering / physics things in the real world like the way they can intuit things like evolution. I suspect it must be growing up with watching too many action movies and seeing impossible things from Hollywood - like cars blowing up after every crash (after the hero gets out of course).
I remember my first reaction to the event of 9/11 was "Wow, this is a Hollywood staged event." Really had this feeling that stuck deep in my gut and couldn't shake it. Well maybe that was the point. People believe Hollywood make believe- at least most of the American populace.
It's settled science for me, 100%. Maybe for you to get there you will need another investigation and conclusion by some 'independent' officials, Keith. Will Obama push for this? WIll anyone try to step up and attempt political suicide? What's the chances of that happening?
Is it 0% or 0.05%? Maybe we need a poll on this???
-Mike
Keith,
At least you are open to multiple possibilities and that puts you ahead of 95% of the population. At least you put this post up and try to seek out data to find out the best explanation. Bully for you- my hat off to you for open mindedness.
Keep looking into it and you will become a truther, at least on bldg 7. Just limit your imagination from there as the possibilities and implications of why this was done are sickeningly colon clenching. Not for the faint of heart, that's for sure.
-Mike
Cult members with box cutters could hijack a plane and even get the plane to crash into a building.
But to bring down a steel framed building at free fall speed takes some real planning and upfront work.
To not realize this would be an error in judgement.
-Mike
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
We need another 9/11 investigation, knowing what we know now about Cheney. But on what happened that day, I'd still vote for cult members and box cutters. No explosives necessary..
Yeah, we should simply ignore the countless eyewitness testimonies describing the explosions in the buildings and the entire nature of the collapses of those three towers that were designed to withstand airplane impacts.
Did you watch any of films I posted? They go into much more scientific detail than I can list here in a post.
Because so much of what we have today is a result of 9/11 we need to know exactly what happened. It's not something we can simply brush off and wave our hands about.
9/11 is the fulcrum. Let's not dismiss it.
-Gonzo
And try not to shove too much 9/11 crap on threads that are not about conspiracies. If you can help yourself..
F*CK YOU GUBERVILLE! I'm tired of your sh*t man. You still haven't bothered to respond on Operation Northwoods which shows how deeply your WILLFUL denial runs.
Seriously. You've got your head so far up your ass say hi to your liver for me.
-Gonzo
Condaleeza Rice testified before the 9/11 commission that the month before, Bush had received an intelligence report titled "Bin Laden determined to attack in the United States"; it included descriptions of planes being used as missiles. They had the FBI memo about Arab nationals taking flying lessons but not learning how to land the planes. So, yes they knew of the possibility of an attack. Why they chose not to act is the question. Incompetence or conspiracy?
"9/11 is the fulcrum. Let's not dismiss it.
-Gonzo"
Exactly Gonzo. If our leadership won't tell us the truth, they need to at least stop operating under a false premise. This is madness.
And to the Anon who said I dismissed "conspiracy theorists," I am not dismissing them, just asking for a complete story. If the LIHOPs or MIHOPs are so damn sure of themselves, let's see them lay it all on the table in one piece.
Keith,
How come you removed the poll on the opinion of the 9/11 attacks?
Seems kinda odd for this to disappear.
-Mike
The fact is a regime willing to kill hundreds of thousands of Afghanis and Iraqis for profit doesn't give a damn about YOU. Your life means no more to them than the lives of the barbarian filth in the Middle East. I don't know what happened on 9/11 and I don't know if we'll ever have the true story. But the WTC7 incident is what always bothered me even after I read the 9/11 Commission Report. The actual report reads to me, "We don't know what happened to WTC7 and we aren't going to worry about it!" Lots of obviously bigger fires have happened in skyscrapers and not done near the damage - look at that conflagration at the new TV tower in Beijing.
Please, not this shit again. Enough already.
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