No other conclusion can be drawn.
You order people to violate the Geneva Conventions, you should be tried and prosecuted.
Period.
Oh, if Petraeus wasn't enough, here's McCain also saying Bush and Cheney violated the Geneva Conventions.
Case closed.
Arrest the guilty.
Prosecute.
Imprison.
Not convinced? Here's what we signed up for with the Geneva Conventions:
Art 13. Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention.
Art 14. Prisoners of war are entitled in all circumstances to respect for their persons and their honour.
Art 17. Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information.
No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.
And here's the International Criminal Court war crime definition (of which we are not party):
War crimes are defined in the statute that established the International Criminal Court, which includes:
1. Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, such as:
1. Willful killing, or causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health
2. Torture or inhumane treatment
3. Unlawful wanton destruction or appropriation of property
4. Forcing a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of a hostile power
5. Depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial
6. Unlawful deportation, confinement or transfer
7. Taking hostages
So, knowing what we know now, and that we have two confirmed war criminals (and their henchmen) running free in America, what do we do? Take matters into our own hands and arrest the criminals? Or thumb our noses at the Geneva Conventions, international law, and our moral and legal commitments?
America used to be a nation of laws. We used to abide by our treaties. We used to prosecute our criminals. We used to be a shining city on a hill.
What are we now?
Soot & Ashes Favourite Blogs
PerpWalkWatch - # of Hours New AG Eric Holder Has Let Angelo Mozilo Run Free
Eric Holder and Barack Obama
Failure to
Arrest
Angelo Mozilo
2862 Hours
(countdown suspended 6/21/2009)
ERIC HOLDER - YOU ARE A COWARD
DO YOUR JOB
(UPDATE 6.4.09 - SEC CHARGES MOZILO WITH INSIDER TRADING. YET ERIC HOLDER STILL SITS ON HIS ASS AND DOES NOTHING)
Posts
Comments
18 comments:
Play dirty. Don't wear a uniform. Hide your rocket launchers at grandma's house and use children as shields in the heat of battle. In short, terrorism works because the world blames America when grandma gets blown up and the kid loses his arm. Damn this is going to get ugly. They haven't even used WMD's on us yet. Both democrats and republicans are idiots. Do you actually think they like us better in the middle east because of Obama?
.
Definition of war,
Simple
Kill people , break things
Nation of laws?
Shining city on a hill?
Nah...we've been scumbags ever since we set foot on this continent.
We're Nazis
If you are going to hang Bush and company, you have to go after Pelosi and her band of nitwits too.
Terrorist organizations, though often supplied or even sponsored by governments, more resemble criminal gangs than recognized states. They are not signatories to any of protocols establishing international standards of conduct, such as the Geneva Conventions or the United Nations charter. They do not operate a government or even exercise ongoing control over any territory. Terrorist groups are not thereby covered by the Geneva Conventions and thus not subject either to its protections or its sanctions.
These Suicide murderers are not party to any civil discourse and by definition kill innocents of opposing ideology.
How soon we forget that September day when 3000 people were deprived of their lives at the hands of thugs who would take their own lives to attack us.
If I had the opportunity to meet Osama, I would not hesitate to maim, torture and slowly strangle the life out of him.
The enemy has been elevated to honorable foes by the lefties but most Americans that were touched by 9/11 will never forget who they are and what they deserve.
Obama and friends shrill hatred for the previous administration will stop at nothing to continue to demonize Bush's presidency.
That’s why we have the rift and polarized political parties.
Obama, in the end will be the undoing of our Democratic Republic and will make Bush look like a genius.
"...Play dirty..."They should play fair: mass in an open field and hold still.
"...If you are going to hang Bush and company, you have to go after Pelosi and her band of nitwits too..."Damn straight! They went along with it...
which is even worse than coming up with it, IMHO.
Not to mention:
Crimes against peace:
(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i)..
and
(c) Crimes against humanity:
Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime. .
-Gonzo
To Duarte et al.
Let's say you see Chinese paratroopers floating into your cul-de-sac during breakfast: do you have to run down to the recruiting station, go to MEPS, go to basic training, and then report to your duty station and get issued a bunch of equipment before you can fight back?
Or can you start shooting from the bed room window with your bath robe on, junior downstairs and grandma in the guest room?
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but we're IN THEIR MOTHER******* LAND!!!
YOU TWITS!!!
"Oh, but what about 9/11? They started it!!!"
European Powers have been fucking with other nations for centuries; we grabbed that role from them after World War II.
How many 9/11s have to be inflicted on the Arabs before they are allowed one against us*?
* By "us" I mean the New World Order of which you are an unwitting or witting tool.
Go Cheney Yourself, ***Holes!
You're looking at the Republican presidential candidate for 2012. This is his pre-election campaign campaign. There's the antidote to your "death of the Repube-lickin' Party, Keith.
Fox is playing right along to pump this guy's stock, as will all the corporate media. This might explain why they're giving so much air to Snarlin' Dick Cheney. He's the bad cop to Petraeus' good one. And when people are sick of Hopey after four years of economic decline, the general whose name sounds like a Roman emperor's will be sold as the new Eisenhower.
Mrs. Bukko, the hard leftist, was watching over my shoulder as this played. She just shouted "Glad we won't be living there when he takes over!"
You're moving ever closer to overt military dictatorship, America. Tick tick, tick...
The Geneva convention only applies to regular armies - soldiers in uniform operating under a command structure. It does not apply to spies, saboteurs, or irregulars like the typical Al Qaeda jihadi. They can be summarily executed with no due process or trial under the "accepted" rules of war.
So stop this Geneva Convention nonsense Keith. Torture may be wrong and illegal, but the Geneva Convention doesn't offer any protections to the creeps at Gitmo.
"...can you start shooting from the bed room window with your bath robe on, junior downstairs and grandma in the guest room?..."I'd bet anyone that these guys wanked themselves silly to Red Dawn.
Any takers?
"...I want to love somebody Andy; don't wanna die before that happens..."{1:30}"...we'll love you, babushka..." ;^D
"Anonymous said...
If you are going to hang Bush and company, you have to go after Pelosi and her band of nitwits too."
Works for Me.
Major attack on the next joint session meeting of congress? Just a thought...
Nah, just leave America up to its' own devices. They will destroy themselves.
A couple of things:
1) we are not party to the International Criminal Court so it doesn't matter what that org aays.
2) the Geneva Convention articles only govern enemy combatants of bona fide armies of bona fide nations. it does not cover terrorists who have no nation or legitimately recognized army.
international terrorism is a new phenomenon for the world, particularly for America so we need to do what we have to do to fight it. and that means aggressive interrogations or even torture in some cases if it means getting the info we need to defeat the terrorists and protect Americans and others.
the bottom line here is that the the provisions of the Geneva Convention (GC) and the International Criminal Court (ICC) were promulgated to apply only to soldiers of national armies, not to well-organized, stateless terrorists since they themselves are not -- and can't -- be party to the GC or ICC.
case closed keith. time to move on from this manufactured issue.
This just in:
Nixon pardoned!
Keith,
The conversation needs to be about articles of faith, not articles of military conduct that an enemy does not even acknowledge. I don't agree with torture - not just because it's morally reprehensible, but because it's completely ineffective.
The Geneva conventions came about following the eyewitnessed suffering and treatment of prisoners following the battle of Solferino (France/Italy alliance vs. Austria) where following battle and victory by France/Italy Napoleon III, Austrian prisoners of war - thinking they had miraculously survived the conflict - were later summarily shot or casually bayonetted by their captors. The outrage was so great across Europe at the time (1850s), that work commenced on what became the Geneva conventions.
Nobody learned from this history because Europe continued to suffer many more wars and mistreat prisoners in the 19th and 20th centuries (Franco-Prussian War, WWI, WWII, plus many more).
However, the big difference between Western nations and Muslim nations is that Western nations either admit their transgressions publicly , or we have a investigative press that drags it out into the open.
You will NEVER witness the secular Turkish press doing a documentary on the Armenian genocide of 1915. Never.
The Geneva conventions are good as long as they are observed by both sides.
The problem with an Islamic enemy is that they do not and cannot fight on a level playing field. Further than this, Muslim fighters do not observe the Geneva conventions because their enemy is 9 times out of 10 an "infidel" worthy of everlasting tormet (unless said enemy can be converted to Islam). Any questions about this should be directed toward articles about the non-believer or infidel in the quran and hadith. It's not for the faint hearted.
So our choice here is very difficult.
Muslims do not respect America more because of Obama. They hate Americans just as much as before. And it's not even because we're Americans.
It's because of articles of faith.
It's because we are infidels. But no elected leader will ever address this fundamental issue.
The best analogy is that the US is trying to fight warriors that have poured out of a 8th century time capsule, only now these fighters may get their hands on nuclear and biological weapons.
And the Koran and the Hadith are very specific as to what Muslims must do to infidels such as we. Either we (whether Christian, agnostic or atheist) convert to the true faith, or it's curtains.
No middle ground
Actually, the Christian Bible is very specific about what to do with non-believers too, but most pastors don't pick these lines to support their Sunday sermons. The remedy usually involved assembling an angry mob and hurling geological deposits at the accused.
Keith,
Regarding the Geneva Convention, that's why GWB DOJ lawyers conjured up a new category called 'enemy combatants'.
Precisely to sidestep POW protections that would normally be granted as a Geneva Convention signatory.
Furthermore, torturing people (sometimes to death) in an offshore military outpost (Gitmo) denied these prisoners basic civil rights protections afforded under the U.S. Constitution.
DOJ lawyers thought through this one.
With all respect, you shouldn't hold your breath expecting the BHO DOJ to pursue anything on the GWB DOJ. There's an unwritten 'Memorandum of Understanding' between presidents:
"If you don't prosecute the previous administration, then the subsequent administration won't prosecute you"
Bukko_in_Australia said..."You're moving ever closer to overt military dictatorship, America."
Good point.
Key word is 'overt'.
We have been 'unofficially' under Pentagon rule since 9-11-2001.
Arguably, 9/11 was a military coup.
Wait, Keith, the guilty have already been arrested, tried, and imprisoned for these crimes. Don't you remember Pvt. Lyndie England? That scruffy, homely girl from West Virginia who was in all those pictures of naked tortured prisoners? They got her, Keith! They got her! And she did some time in prison for those crimes!
So it's ok, now. Forget about all that. The guilty paid already. It's over.
Post a Comment