For those of you selfishly and ignorantly on the wrong side of history, all I can say is history will not be kind. Your kids will come to hate you.
And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids.
For those of you thankfully on the right side of history, that's all and good. But what are you personally doing about it?
We Can’t Wish Away Climate Change
By AL GORE
It would be an enormous relief if the recent attacks on the science of global warming actually indicated that we do not face an unimaginable calamity requiring large-scale, preventive measures to protect human civilization as we know it.
Of course, we would still need to deal with the national security risks of our growing dependence on a global oil market dominated by dwindling reserves in the most unstable region of the world, and the economic risks of sending hundreds of billions of dollars a year overseas in return for that oil. And we would still trail China in the race to develop smart grids, fast trains, solar power, wind, geothermal and other renewable sources of energy — the most important sources of new jobs in the 21st century.
But what a burden would be lifted! We would no longer have to worry that our grandchildren would one day look back on us as a criminal generation that had selfishly and blithely ignored clear warnings that their fate was in our hands. We could instead celebrate the naysayers who had doggedly persisted in proving that every major National Academy of Sciences report on climate change had simply made a huge mistake.
I, for one, genuinely wish that the climate crisis were an illusion. But unfortunately, the reality of the danger we are courting has not been changed by the discovery of at least two mistakes in the thousands of pages of careful scientific work over the last 22 years by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. In fact, the crisis is still growing because we are continuing to dump 90 million tons of global-warming pollution every 24 hours into the atmosphere — as if it were an open sewer.
Posts
96 comments:
Global warming while possibly real is way overblown. especially given that we're gonna reach peak oil before we can do anything permanent to this planet.
I mean yeah the planet would be better off without the carbon emissions, but in reality we're just living in a space between ice ages.
Human beings think themselves far more important than they are...
What am I doing about it?
Just bought a new vehicle that gets Worse mileage than my old one!
F**k Al Gore and the rest of the Snakeoil salesman
.
Haven't you Lemmings figured it out yet?
Aren't you tired of being lied to?
Aren't you tired of being told what to think...
of being lead around by the ring in your nose?
Wake up!
Think for yourself
And as for Al Gore...
Beware the prophet who seeks profit!
.
Wow. You really are a doofus. Later.
please. he's just making excuses for the truth and talking his book. no different than realtors claiming "prices always go up" so they'll have more marks to skim 6% from.
CO2 is good for plants. Plants, in turn, generate more O2 (oxygen) and a new balance is achieved. Now, however, many natural forests have been and are being clear-cut for agricultural purposes and mono-specie replacement such as pine trees for lumber. The natural balance that plants would bring is being disrupted. Way back in the old dinosauer days there was signifigantly higher levels of both carbon dioxide and oxygen in the total composition of the atmosphere. It is the higher oxygen levels that permitted the fantastically huge size of animals and insects during that time. It was the higher levels of CO2 that caused the increase in oxygen via the plants. Everything in nature will eventually reach its own balance. The Mediterranean basin was once heavily forested before earlier civilizations removed enough tress to cause soil erosion and then tress and many other things (like crops) could no longer grow. The Saraha desert was once a large ocean before natural events (not man-made) transformed it into the world's largest desert.
I personally am doing my part in helping humanity breath better by providing the trees maximum CO2 so that they can release more oxygen into the air.
What I have done is remove the Catalytic converter from my car hence increasing my CO2 contribution.
Additional positive side effects include the possibility of a warmer climate hence the reduction of energy required to heat homes increased yields in produce and veggie farms and extended growing seasons. Which will lower the price of quality foods and increase our farting frequency, thus the cycle begins anew.
So how does Al Gore know so much about all this stuff?
He must have read it in a book,
one can only hope a 'hard cover' book.
Ideally by an author with glasses and a British accent.
People who believe this garbage are the self-absorbed numbskulls with no kids.
Al-Queef,
You listed bout 10 future generations:
‘Your kids
And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids. And their kids.’
And we all thought its all over by 2012
Phew!
Damn, for a minute I thought that was a chart showing the number of registered RE agents. CO2 is rising, so fucking what? It might be an important statistic if there was a verifiable link between atmospheric CO2 concentrations and climate change. But no such correlation exists.
As for Algore, the UN and their gaggle of "scientists", it seems by their own admissions they can draw any conclusions they like from a data set, and people like Keith will blindly follow their bullshit predictions. Funny how all of their findings lead to a "pay here right now" conclusion.
Keith, you were smart enough to see the financial bubbles in housing, how is it you are totally blind to this giant scam?
But what are you personally doing about it?
I'm driving a Prius (the second one we've bought. Had to leave the last one in Oz because the steering wheel was on the wrong side...)
But as your angry anonymous commenter notes, a Prius is an overpriced snob vehicle used mainly by Yups like me as a justification for sneering at everybody else. You know what, anon? You're right! We drive 'em so we can make you feel inferior. Which you are. You personally, not all non-Prius drivers. Not everybody has that much money to fork out for a cheesebox on wheels, so I forgive them. Just not you.
Seriously, though, we rented a house that's close enough to where I work that I can ride my bicycle instead of driving. In a cold, rainy climate like this, that's a meaningful sacrifice. And in Australia, I took the electric trams to work. Plus I vow to stop taking airline trips all over the world. I will NOT spend a month in Europe this year! And I won't fly to North America any more. Mainly because I live there again, but still...
As for our kids' kids' kids' kids blaming us, I don't think so. Due to planet-wide environmental destruction, I don't think there's going to be much organized civilzation then. They'll be too busy trying to find food to even know we existed. Although they might THANK us for our wastefulness, as they scavenge through our garbage dumps, mining metal fragments to fashion into spear points...
Sick and tired of this "Children and grand Children" crap.
Let them figure it out !
"Most of our colleagues don't seem to grasp that we're not in a gentlepersons' debate, we're in a street fight against well-funded, merciless enemies who play by entirely different rules,"
Paul R. Ehrlich, Stanford University researcher
Once again Keef reveals his libtard colors.
funny, i don't see this as a left right issue
I see it as a moral issue.
But isn't it funny that the ultra religious want to risk the destruction of the earth, and the promotion of polluting businesses over the health and welfare of the people. Yup, that's what jesus would have favored.
Actually, not funny. Just kinda weird. And indefensible.
I guess it's all about ignorance though with the GOP and tea party crowd, whether they're religious wing-nuts or anti-government conspiracy theorists.
Scientists are evil. Educated people are evil. Books are bad. Dinosaurs roamed the earth with humans. There was no ozone hole. The sun revolves around the earth. Species don't evolve. And dumping c02 into the atmosphere has no impact on the environment.
As I said, history will be brutal. But it won't really matter anymore by then.
The Prius is a gross polluter because it doesn't have emission controls like all other autos. Don't be too smug driving one.
keith - sold my CA house at the peak thanks to you and others. Put all the profits in '06 ($500k) into gold (not gld) when it was at $600. Whhoooweeee!
Moved down to Patagonia and boy, the climate is really fucked up here.
went to visit glaciers that are retreating at an incresing rate.
local farmers very concerned about climate changes particularly rainfall pattern changes.
House crash coming! Did people listen? No!
Climate changing happening! Did people listen? No!
Dollar/currency collapse coming! Did people listen? No!
I will be fortunate to survive the financial collapse and be dead by the time of catastrophic climate change.
We humans sure are dumb.
Bill Hicks on reading:
http://tinyurl.com/5jhjmu
Now, when do YOU expect the hyperinflation to begin in the US.
0-3 years, 3-6 or 6-10 years. That's a poll I'd like to see the results of.
Love ya Keith!
I'm with you Keith. It is a moral issue. I have very thin morals.
I am burning that sh!t as fast as I can. The sooner we use it all up, the sooner we can move along.
Sorry to the kids. You get to deal with sea level rise and re-balancing climates.
This is going to happen. It is all about how humanity deals with it.
Hopefully the US remains in denial and the world treats us with the respect that we deserve.
"Keith, you were smart enough to see the financial bubbles in housing, how is it you are totally blind to this giant scam?"
Spoken like an '06 vintage realtor...
THE NUMBER OF CARBON ATOMS IS THE SAE AS IT WAS A BILLION YEARS AGO.
I moves from carbon to carbon deoxide to methane gas to coal to sugars.
What the hell do you want?
Maybe if we export our coal to the moon?
Al Gore uses private jets along with DiCaprio and Pelosi.
Do as I say not as I do.
Gore is a blowhard.
Mixing real science with bogus science proves that evil man is destroying the universe?
Here is an important issue:
The proponents of this theory are all interconnected with our generations’ most discredited organizations, such as the chronically incompetent UN, as well as Al Gore himself who talks one way and then does another.
So credibility is already in question from the start.
Now add to that the heated debate within the scientific community itself, and it begs to understand your conviction.
That said, it is critical that we pursue all potential energy sources, renewable energy appears the most logical and energy independents is probably the most important challenge now.
If any of these guys were serious about making a real impact on the ground today, they would be out there supporting people like T. Booone Pickens etc. but that takes…… ahem; ‘real work’…….
I’m shocked.
Mr. Keef,
I don’t want no fat rich man to tell me to conserve water when he is pumping wholesale from the same aquifer.
Welcome back bud.
Our only hope is for a full blown depression - what's taking so long?
Report on Friday that release
of methane from hydrates in
Siberia is much faster than thought.
Methane is a "super" greenhouse gas,
and a feedback loop could make methane
from tundra and ocean hydrates the path
to sea level rise beyond the worst estimates.
Actually the West is twice as guilty - it helped spread the "car culture" around the world by means of Hollywood media and attendant "lifestyle" marketing. Now even Russia runs its own version of Cash for Clunkers to "stimulate" the domestic auto industry. Climate change or not, fossil fuels burnt in a traffic jam add to GDP!
Notice how they have changed the terminology from global warming to climate change . Global warming is bullshit but makes it easier to push their carbon tax . No one can dispute climate change but it is harder to pin on carbon emissions . This is cyclical but they will find a way to make us pay for it .The best is watching these asshole fly around on their private jets pretending to give a shit about the planet .what is sad is that intelligent people Eg keith buy into this crock of shit .
Smarty pantses,
The Science is just no there.
Nuff said
This and health care are the wool pulled over your eyes; used to keep you complacent about the coming economic collapse.
Our world will be quite different in 10 years, and it won't be because some worked-up hippies and deniers got caught up in this argument orchestrated by others.
Keefer,
Not to long ago 'all' the scientists in a modern enlightened country proved that they are superior to there fellow human beings, named themselves the Aryan race, the masses and blogs bought into it and shortly thereafter began dealing with the grave threat of those 'the scientists' claimed inferior.
Wait!
I'm not saying that the so called scientist claiming this CO2 stuff are Nazis, I am saying that they have an agenda and is not so much based on physical measurable evidence.
Beware of them closed minded who call themselves scientists.
Thats right,
it is the open minded who question the narrow range of time and variables included in all these studies.
My conclusion is that those so called scientists are DOPES have no clue, but if it brings us closer to energy independents then I'll ride this wave.
Global warming? Climate change?
We can't "prove" these 2 are caused by humans but we can sure prove that we've polluted our rivers and clearcut a whole whack of forests.
The real culprit is overpopulation. But what can we do really? It is surely caused by cheap oil which intensified agriculture. Could there really be so many people in the middle east if we weren't consuming all that oil? The petrodollars might only trickle down but that trickle is still enough to stimulate procreation.
But what are we going to do now? Go green and not produce enough food? Stop consuming oil and let other countries take over?
Let's face it, the power of nations has always rested on resources and energy. There is no friggin way any country will cut its energy use to let another take over.
The only way we will fix our environmental problems is with population shrinkage.
As if 6 billion people on this planet will unite to conserve. What a joke... it goes against every law of nature. And even if it worked, it would either create better living conditions which would only mean even more population growth or worse living conditions and why would anyone strive for that?
Malthus was right but his error was basing his analysis on microcosms. I guess he never thought humans could live in one part of the world, devastate the rest and have enough resources to make the cycle last for a couple of centuries.
Mother Nature will decide.
Now, when do YOU expect the hyperinflation to begin in the US.
-----------
My gutt tells me that the inflation signal will come when we start seeing bankruptcies, closures and M&A activity picking up. Companies got a 12-24 month reprieve with zirp. The 30 year interest rate card is gone, finished, over.
By that time, the fed will be in phase 2 of the bailout: prime and CRE.
So the effects of QE will be starting to hit at the exact same time capacity will be dwindling.
Yah. Algore is invested (quite literally) in the existence of anthropogenic global warming. Good unbiased source to interpret the science... oh wait, the science isn't so good either.
Were still alive arent we?
Get over this liberal bullshit.go plant a tree and save the world.There is no way in hell you can regulate the air.Everyone wants to be modern.Look at all the pollution coming from china.They dont give a shit about gloabl warming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQG_s3K3p5g
believe the scientists, or believe the coal and oil companies and ignoramuses like jim inhofe and sarah palin
gee, tough choice.
seriously, the ignorance of so many americans is astounding. It's amazing the impact that corporate media has on an undereducated population.
Please everyone, don't hate Keith, he is just still hypnotized like with Obama. He'll wake up and admit that the science is not settled as time goes on and the rest of the world exposes this scam. Like I said before, there will be a huge movement toward truth and understanding as this huge fraud and corruption in our government is exposed. Climategate, the Fed, Goldman, JP Morgan, 911, etc. will all be ongoing topics for several years. The truth always wins in the end. Hopefully at the end of this horrible period of scandals, once the criminals are in jail, we'll return to being a country governed by men of high character and integrity unlike the corrupt Congress of the last 30 years.
+1 Andrew. Gore may have a point. But he was vice president during the "SUV era". Why didn't he say or do something then?
The science is settled, like evolution and gravity (but some of you doubt those theories too I'd imagine)
To think otherwise is to prove your complete and total ignorance, and sad disregard for science, scientists, and educated people.
Is what it is.
I call a fool a fool.
And I bet none of you who deny global warming have read the science. You just listen to the corporations, the corporatists who've hijacked the GOP, the corporate media who are doing their best to turn fact into fiction, and undereducated ignorant fools like Sarah Palin and Jim Inhofe.
The world will be better off when you and your selfish and ignorant ilk die. Harsh, but true.
(note - just accidently deleted a comment from someone in 'academia' (i.e. 2nd grade social studies) who claimed the science wasn't settled. Note to that (ignorant) anon poster - go ahead and repost - I hit delete instead of publish
all views welcome, even from idiots
Oh my Keefer, Keefer..
It takes a 'real man' to admit he is wrong sometimes.
Insulting our intelligence does not prove a thing.
Most of us are educated (Me not religious)have a very good understanding of both sides of this debate, it is not close to being settled, fact is that this whole 'mans destroying earth' with CO2 emissions is flaky at best.
*
*
*
*
and what is it with your obsession with Sarah Palin? do you have a crush on her?
There might be a need for an
awareness test to be allowed
to post a comment.
That would reduce volume by half.
Many don't even comprehend the
scope of what they don't know.
When I graduated with a BSME, I knew
I had much to learn, but there was more
to learn about the World than I had
figured in 1975.
Just basic physical chemistry would
change many opinions on climate.
But many comments indicate the
absence of even 11th grade chem.
And some investment advice ...
forget ocean beachfront property.
But if you are so sure the climate is
safe, and sea levels won't rise 50+ cm
this century, then risk your money on
your reckless thoughts.
admitting i'm wrong on global warming would be like admitting i'm wrong on gravity. or evolution. or housing.
i'm not.
nor are the 99%+ of scientists who understand this settled science.
but, for the sake of argument, assume that all these scientists, and me, are wrong.
does it make sense to risk the future of the planet, and all of humanity? does it make sense to feed our addiction to terrorist-country oil? does it make sense to not invest in new energy technologies? does it make sense to needlessly over-consume our limited natural resources? does it make sense to pollute our only planet?
the ignorance on this science is sickening. but what' more sickening is that some of you live on the planet you seek to destroy. i wish you an early death, for the benefit of the planet, its inhabitants, and your childrens' children.
Uber-capitalist talk on CO2.
http://bit.ly/aYcNWs
I was wrong on gravity in '75.
I thought it was quantum force from a distance.
But within a few years I understood what is
accepted science: mass-property deformation
of time-space creates a potential gradient that
allows a second mass to follow that gradient
unless restrained.
The GPS satellite system was built with two
timing systems. The Luddite system ignored
relativity, and failed. The relativistic system
was then engaged, at it worked.
http://bit.ly/dtIKr9
Reality has the final word; with GPS, and climate.
The basic timeline is a 4.5 billion year old Earth, with (very approximate) dates:
* 3.8 billion years of simple cells (prokaryotes),
* 3 billion years of photosynthesis,
* 2 billion years of complex cells (eukaryotes),
* 1 billion years of multicellular life,
* 600 million years of simple animals,
* 570 million years of arthropods (ancestors of insects, arachnids and crustaceans),
* 550 million years of complex animals,
* 500 million years of fish and proto-amphibians,
* 475 million years of land plants,
* 400 million years of insects and seeds,
* 360 million years of amphibians,
* 300 million years of reptiles,
* 200 million years of mammals,
* 150 million years of birds,
* 130 million years of flowers,
* 65 million years since the non-avian dinosaurs died out,
* 2.5 million years since the appearance of the genus Homo,
* 200,000 years since humans started looking like they do today,
* 25,000 years since Neanderthals died out.
Some sources that might
have wider regard to the less-informed ...
http://bit.ly/cy4LpN
http://bit.ly/alF3wa
http://bit.ly/9CjR94
Keith said;
"admitting i'm wrong on global warming would be like admitting i'm wrong on gravity. or evolution. or housing.
i'm not."
admitting you're wrong on global warming would be like admitting the world is round when all the settled science of the day beleived the earth was flat.
An you are wrong on this one.
Should we now call you an idiot or ignorant because you erroneously buy into this crap hook line and sinker?
WOW Keith
3 months after climategate, and you still believe that the sainted one is telling the truth.
how about these facts
the world has been cooling since 1995 (so much for your graph)
the himalian glaciers will not disappear, it just put in the IPCC report for effect
Al Gore is still a partner in an investment bank that will earn a fortune if he can con the world to follow his scare story.
Al gore still owns 3 mansions and flies the world in a private jet - I guess only the little people will pay his carbon tax
You should stop thinking that scientist are honest, they are not, and will give the scientific result that give them the most research money
Read the Climategate emails and think
No, not 2nd grade SS, cheap shot. Harvard cum laude. Penn State Ph.D. And yes, Penn State is where the lying snitch was from who helped perpetuate the fraudulent data. They distorted the facts when I was there, and they've upped their game. I'm ashamed to be an alum, but I know what they're up to, at least.
illigitimus non carborundum
veritas
Keith, no one likes pollution or is saying we should keep on polluting but here is how a lot of people feel: The planet may indeed be warming, like it has over the 6 billion year history. But who knows if its souly due to us. Hasn't science also shown there have been warmer periods and cooler periods in the history of the planet? Wasn't there what they call the medieval warming period when Greenland was green. Or the mini ice age. Sorry I can't disregard that long solar cycles may have something to do with it or the way the planet elliptically orbits the sun over hundreds or thousands of years. This is another form of credit default swaps and "too big to fail" to bleed the US taxpayer of more money. This whole cap & trade tax scam was concocted by Al Gore, Ken Lay from Enron and Goldman Sachs back in the late 90's.
We are actually cooling not warming.Get you facts straight my friends.Have you ever opened a book on the variables involved with the earths atmosphere?
Keith, Like,the earth is the center of the solar system?That was settled science.No life in the oceans below 3000 ft(no light)? I am old enough to remember the New Ice AGE was beginning in the 70s.due to soot from factories and cars.There has been global warming for 18.000 yrs.Thank God!New York was under a kilometer of ice,but San Francisco extnded out to the Farallons.Hysteria over 150 yrs of very limited direct data a longer period of inferrd data is not very wise
Christians proclaimed the earth was the center of the universe. They killed or jailed scientists and philosophers who said otherwise.
Educated greeks and romans (pythagoras, aristotle, etc) in the 500s proclaimed the world was round. unfortunately the uneducated ignorant masses took some time to catch up.
And for a recent example, overwhelming scientific evidence showed that cigarettes caused cancer. yet for decades the undereducated and misinformed went along with the cigarette companies and their lobbyists and whores in DC, via the hypnosis of the media, and denied the science as true
And now, history is repeating itself. Christians, bizarrely, deny global warming science, proving that they don't understand and are actually directly opposed to the teachings of christ. And the undereducated and ignorant are easily confused and tricked by corporations who have a vested interest in polluting. Along with their appointed whores in DC.
For those of you who hate science, hate scientists, believe corporate-sponsored media or your ignorant religious leaders, and cling to childish beliefs due to the hypnosis of religion and corporations, again, I wish you an early death. The planet and all humanity is being put at risk by your misguided, dangerous and selfish thinking, and I hope nature finds a way to get rid of you sooner rather than later, for the sake of the planet.
Ignorance is not bliss.
Keith:
It's not enough to convince people that humans are destroying the planet, you must also prove that we humans can stop it.
I believe we are destroying the planet but do not think we can stop it.
1. Think about the time it will take to convince a critical mass that it is our fault. Probably only when the number of natural catastrophies accelerates.
2. Think about the time it will take to find a solution. The fact that millions are willing to live in smog cities (equal to smoking 2 backs a day) is testament to the fact that pollution is not a quick deterrant.
Our current economic system and our way of life based on cheap oil is what brought us to more than 6 billion people on this planet. Stop using oil in agriculture and other areas of our life and the world's population will quickly be decimated.
It's hard for us fat cats to tell our poor neighbors to stop cutting down trees without havign them protest. We'd have to give up something.
I just don't see how we can go green without seeing 2/3 of the people on this planet disappear.
If you want to pollute as little as possible that means you have to cut most of what makes life enjoyable. All hobbies are polluting. Even jogging... it makes you hungrier which forces more agriculture. If you live healthy and live longer, you pollute even more. The best way to reduce pollution is to be dead.
Now, how do you plan on restrciting polluting activities without stepping on people's rights and proclivities? And anyway, if you're not burning oil in that Hummer someone else will be burning that oil somewhere else. A void will always be filled. With 6 billion people on this planet, how do you make sure everyone is using energy efficiently and not trying to gain some form of power over someone else? Because energy is power.
When the Vikings' wealth got capped they went shopping. I don't see enough evolution in humankind to predict anything different today.
IMO, the Greenies have a good point but they are effectively self righteous. It's easy to be green if you like hiking, like old stuff, hate driving, hate shopping, are convinced that you'll have enough money until you die, etc.
This whole "global warming thing"-- besides the con from those who get money for "proving it" and those who get money having invested in the machinery to take our money "because of it" (algore anyone?), does show deep roots by appealing to deepseated liberal guilt.
We somehow "must" be soiling the world just by our existence. Clearly our polluting must lead to a bad end.
Sure, many people understand that overpopulation does stress the system, so, anyone here wanna volunteer to be one of the 4 billion who opt to decrease the population to reasonable levels by suiciding?)
Yeah, it probably is bad that we dump our cwap all around ourselves.
But, morphing this collective angst dread and guilt into this "global warming" thing doesn't make it... science. That we want to believe we are destroying ourselves (and indeed might be) does not mean that cwappy science and cheat science proves something that isn't yet shown to be real... or reasonable.
Indeed, algore talks about consensus on this issue. But, "consensus" is the antithesis of "science"
I invite you to read Michael Crichton on "aliens cause global warming".
One of the best psycho-social treatises on so-called Science I've had the pleasure to read
http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html
regards
evildoc
---or those of you who hate science, hate scientists, believe corporate-sponsored media or your ignorant religious leaders, and cling to childish beliefs due to the hypnosis of religion and corporations, again, I wish you an early death----
Charming. For the first time since I peeked in on HP years ago, you sound a bit... disturbed.
I am a scientist (molecular bio degree from Princeton), and a physician, and a skeptic, and curious. And respectful of religious cultures while taking cheerfully cynical about many of their claims.
Keith, the only "blind" faith involved here- the only head-in-sand religion (in the most negative sense of that word), is those who believe AGW (anthropogenic global warming- human caused in udder words) is reasonably proven science.
Rather AGW is blind religion. It has high shamans who will collect our tithe (algore). It has indulgances bought by the rich members (algore gets a 30k sq ft house and a private jet, all bad for global warming) while pontificating and directing the plebes to suffer. The actual science has been shown to be... bad... yet is believed on faith, stemming from insecurity.
Yessiree bob! I *doubt* global warming. Not because it can't happen. I'm a scientist. I keep open mind. But, rather because the science behind the claim is simply cwap at this point.
When they get some good science, we'll talk.
And, meanwhile, I won't wish you death for disagreeing with me. Sheesh!
Nonsense keith . Christians do not deny climate change or that there will be global warming . The bible clearly lists a severe change in weather patterns as one of the many signs of the end of this age . Another consequence of judgement will be that the sun will be given the power to scorch . (Not my words don't shoot the messenger).As for media propaganda and political interference . CNN green week ! Are you kidding me
A subsidiary of general electric who along with your hero gore is lined up and heavily invested in so called green energy and has made a fortune and stands to make an obscene amount more .
Not to mention all the possibilities of further industry controll and tax our socialist Marxist leader will yield over us .I can actually hear them licking their lips . So put your i love Obama poster down . and get educated
Global warming/climate change is , and has been bs. Give it up, "they" just want control over everything!!!
Despite what we hear in the media, CO2 only has a minor contribution to projected warming. According to the IPCC it is a posivitive feedback loop with water vapor that will cause 90 percent of warming.
The good news is that the water vapor posivitive feedback loop has been proven false by data. More water vapor equals more clouds and this has a cooling effect.
I am puzzled as to why a lot of people get worked up by this.
Grant for a moment it is not true, the whole industry is a scam, and Big Fossil® backing an impressive army of deniers is a good-faith effort to protect the industry's profits.
I guess you'd have to believe that only Gore et al are the greedy ones, Exxon and the rest are really altruists, and compared to Trillion$ siphoned off by the Banksters...
this is a more important issue.
Keef,
Huh???
The ignorant and undereducated bought into the holy roman church empires "be on my side and all your sins will be forgiven" for the past 2000 years, and everyone else should die an early death for not accepting the word of the holy man with a red bini.
Today the ignorant and undereducated are buying into the holy self-righteousness of protecting earth from evil man.
Nothing has changed
Roman empire kooks were replaced by the 'protect all but humans' empire, from extreme groups like PITA to those who steal land from people and give it to those who supposedly know better.
Keith, to sum it up you are simply supporting those who want a free lunch..
I'd like to see your holy immaculate scientists innovate some better technologies, any 2 year old can whine and complain when their limited knowledge is concerned.
enlightened edumecated preachers riding in stretch limos warning us to ride bicycles to save the holy empire is not really innovative.
By the way, its not "global warming" anymore. It started out that way but the official political buzz word is "climate change" so that the MSM and sheeple can mindlessly repeat it over an over like zombies. Similar to "jobless recovery". This will also allow the criminally hijacked government to blame humans for any cooling as well. Cap & trade passing has already been decided for us like healthcare. I like this guy's point of view on the climategate issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEggt0ldQUI
christians aren't denying climate change?
huh?
they're the loudest ignorant voices against the scientists. off the top of my head:
sarah palin (fundamentalist whack-job christian ignorant fool)
sean hannity (corporatist gop pig christian fool)
Jim Inhofe - easily the stupidest person ever to serve in the senate, closed minded ignorant undereducated corporatist corrupt presbyertian christian fool
george bush - monkey, born again science-hating christian fool
I would hope that there are some free-thinking christians (i.e. not hypnotized by fox news) who understand what jesus would have taught about this issue. but the american fundamentalist right wing gop corporatist anti-jesus christians - hannity, palin, inhofe, bush, etc, are not only helping destroy the earth, they're helping destroy the reputation of the christian faith. Which is quickly becoming a church hoping for the end of the world, and the death and needless suffering of humanity.
shame.
history will not be kind.
and I hope all of them die soon. evidently just as they wanted, and when they meet their maker, perhaps only then will they understand.
This thread has been helpful to me.
Such profound ignorance and
stupidity was only legend to me, until now.
One example ....
"I just don't see how we can go green without
seeing 2/3 of the people on this planet disappear."
Clue: Most people will disappear, either the hard
way, or in very hard, very painful, very destructive ways.
Get smart, or kids will pay in blood, disease,
birth defects, hunger, ..... you name it.
.
Keith did you look at Climategate yet?? Ur kidding right? Climate change? Please.
http://robertd.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/ap-finally-sees-the-carbon-credit-scam/
The world is slowly awakening from its Kool-Aid induced coma, and more people are realizing the scam that Al Gore and the U N are pulling with this carbon credit scheme. Even the mainstream media is picking up on the truth. If the Associated Press will print this, maybe there is hope for us after all
Companies and individuals rushing to go green have been spending millions on "carbon credit" projects that yield few if any environmental benefits.
A Financial Times investigation has uncovered widespread failings in the new markets for greenhouse gases, suggesting some organisations are paying for emissions reductions that do not take place.
Others are meanwhile making big profits from carbon trading for very small expenditure and in some cases for clean-ups that they would have made anyway.
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/node/12314#ixzz0hWlryoqI
Keith - let go, move on.
The right-wing jesus-lovers will never believe in global warming even when the waves of a rising ocean are washing them away.
Let fools be fools.
Of course you are correct, don´t beat your head against a tree trying to flush these loons out into the open.
We know who these morons are - 3000 sq. ft. McMansion owners, cunts who proudly drive hummers (the brand even the Chinese recently refused to buy, ha ha) and the rest who buy toxic shit made in Walmart (using credit cards on which they pay the monthly minimum - ha, ha, ha!).
Move on Keith, you´re going to drive yourself mad with this one.
Now, how about a post about the realities of peak oil!
Love ya!
Keith, I strongly suggest you read the frackin' article...
http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html
cheers.
-evildoc
After spending several years in the land of the Eurotards a once smart Keith has seen the light (or the BBC) and turned into a religious freak.
Those sinners who do not agree with his point of view (he does think its really true) shall burn in eternal hell..
Keith,
Show us a single fortune 500 company that isnt selling the 'Green' religion.
Makes ya wonder who is really bought by the corporations..
Queeferonio,
Wanted to inform you that you have a typo on that survey of yours.
It now says:
Why dont you believe global warming science?
Correct way:
Why dont you believe global warming Religion?
you might want to update it before the Monday morning rush.
Regardless of whether the science is correct or not, many people are just naturally skeptical of a movement that reeks of fanaticism and threatens to burn at the stake those who don't fall into line.
I think most people would simply like to know a little more about it before they are forced to buy a new car, replace all their lightbulbs, allow the central office to control their heating and cooling and pay the elites an existence tax.
Keith, I've been wondering in a meta way ("meta" is one of my favourite concepts at the moment) about why you have so many commenters who dispute global warming so ardently. What is it about your blog-audience that makes such them such a bunch of anti-science denialists?
(Of course, it might be that a majority of the know-nothing comments come from the same anonymous Gore-sorehead. When someone doesn't even bother to create the fig-leaf of a Blogger handle, it could be a lone crank or three spouting verbal diarrhea. Nothing like me, of course!)
Anyway, from your HP days, you were a skeptic of the official propaganda-line. So you attracted a readership of skeptics. And you write with a sarcastic tone. So that resonates with other caustic people. Therefore, you're not getting a cross-section of commenters; you're getting a demographic of sneering disbelievers.
That attitude is good in many ways, because the mass-media message is often bullshit. But it can also lead people to doubt EVERYTHING, to say that whatever is officially sanctioned is bullshit. I think you've got a lot of those types of people as readers.
There's also the issue of the enormity of climate change. It's too late to do anything about it, and it goes against established financial interests like Big Oil and Big Coal to change. So we'll keep hurtling off the carbon cliff because certain corporations profit from it. But to admit that to yourself, that your life is f@cked and your kids will grow up on a deteriorating planet, is scary. So people deny.
Some of your commenters are also nihilistic. "I'm going to burn MORE gasoline, goddamit. I want to destroy shit!" It's a form of suicidal behaviour, except some people are too chicken to kill themselves directly. So they'll bring everybody down with them.
Anyway, I appreciate your openness in letting all sorts of wingnuts post. It lets me see what the whacked-out fringe is thinking without having to go to intellectual sewers like Red State.
Oops....
Global Warming Realists (including an MIT meteorology Prof) beat Global Warming Alarmists (the AGW Algore crowd) in debate at prestigious NY debating society.
http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/20938/Article.cfm?artId=21873
Always rough for the religious zealots who buy into AGW, when the facts again get in their way.
regards
evildoc
For all of you "settled science folks" I'll offer you a logic problem without the burden of empirical data.
Scenario 1: We change global habits and conserve crucial energy resources in the process. CO2 levels recede, the earth cools, & polar ice caps reform. Things return to "normal" in 100 years.
Scenario 2: We change global habits and conserve crucial energy resources in the process. But we continue on a cyclic warming trend. Things return to "normal" in 10,000 years.
Scenario 3: We change nothing and squander our crucial energy resources on trips to Starbucks and Home Depot. We continue on a cyclic warming trend. Things return to "normal" in 10,000 years.
Scenario 4: We change nothing and squander our crucial energy resources on trips to Starbucks and Home Depot. Turns out, global warming is total bunk and things stay normal. Hoards of redeemed trolls gather to burn effigies of Al Gore in every Wendy's parking lot.
What do we gain in each scenario?
What do we stand to lose?
Something to keep in mind - science is never settled. One individual can prove a million others wrong. Part of the problem is climate change has become the religion of the left. Look at the phrasing, such as 'climate change denier', to describe skeptics. The fact that one must have unswerving faith that climate change is 100% real as described by the data fudging priest-scientists is scary. If that's not religion, I don't know what is, but it runs counter to the scientific method.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100028631/what-dave-and-his-chum-barack-dont-want-you-to-know-about-green-jobs-and-green-energy/
Green jobs are a waste of space, a waste of money, a lie, a chimera. You know that. I know that. We’re familiar with the report by Dr Gabriel Calzada Alvarez of the Rey Juan Carlos University in Spain which shows that for every “green job” that is created another 2.2 jobs are LOST in the real economy.
We also know that alternative energy is a fraud – only viable through enormous government (ie taxpayer subsidy) and utterly incapable of answering anything more than a fraction of our energy needs. As Shannon Love puts it here:
Here’s a fact you won’t see mentioned in the public policy debate over “alternative” energy:
There exists no alternative energy source, no combination of alternative energy sources, and no system of combinations of alternative energy sources that can fully replace a single, coal fired electric plant built with 1930s era technology.
Nada.
Zero.
Zilch.
So why are our political leaders setting out quite deliberately to deceive us?
===============
Bec they are fraudsters. Like Al Gore.
Keith you've really turned into one pretentious sanctimonious twat.
Your "Global warming survey" in the sidebar is about as skewed as a "Do you want arse raping by Big Bubba the lifer?"
A, With KY gel as lube.
B, Soap from the shower as lube.
C, Sand and broken glass as lube.
D, Dry no lube.
As for global warming, do you want to tell that to all the ships, ferries and the like that are currently icebound in the Baltic?
What about the melting polar icecaps of Mars and a plethora of melting ice on moons of the gas giants? Is all this happening because of Martian gas guzzling SUVs, Martian deforestation or perhaps a result of Martian cows farting?
Is there the slightest chance that rising temperatures throughout the entire solar system might possibly be solar you know like the fucking sun in origin?
You're right on one thing though the science is fairly settled, and it has fuck all to do with whether we drive priuses or we don't drive priuses.
I REITERATE...
Realize that "settled" and "consensus" are antithetical to "science"!!!
http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html
regards
evildoc
Why is this a right vs. left issue?
It should be about opposition to fraud and corruption and honest debate and discussion that forms legislation, not about ramming shit through as fast as we can for the benefit of special interests. This is why everyone is so opposed to what the Dems are trying to do right now. They were elected to stop the war in Iraq and bring home the troops, stop the corporate bailouts and bank giveaways, reign in Wall Street and instead we get a harmful healthcare bill, cap & trade, and an escalation of middle east confrontation. The political bickering at the expense of the people is killing this country. The asshole Repubs are taking full adavantage of the fact that most people feel this way even though they are just as bad with the military industrial complex special interests. Who the hell do you vote for? November is going to be real ugly. I hope enough Independents win to keep the others somewhat honest. I am predicting a "Kent State" type incident somewhere if the Dems ram healthcare through. Maybe its better that the Dems just jam all this unwanted legislation through so it can hopefully start a chain reaction for a revolution.
Global warming gives me a boner.
I said boner; heh.
This topic will forever be controversial, such as abortion, and the challenges from both sides will never end their fight.
Keith, I will say one thing about ignorance. The diversity on this issue is much more than the picture you paint. It is not just Christians against scientist and 99% of scientist do not agree on this. That is as ignorant as Obamy saying 99% of economist agreed we needed his bailouts. It is a poor argument.
You are correct that this controversy is bought paid and fueled by corporate money, but it supports both sides of the argument. I have not seen anything from either side on this issue that is not pushed by propaganda. This is where you should once again be careful. It has led to your loss of credibility in the past.
Being a Ron Paul supporter and not being religious myself, if you told me I had to chose right now what side I am on I would not be able to. Bruce King who is a huge liberal engineer who has pioneered many things in sustainable building said, “The earth is fine, it is we who are not.” He said it in a small lecture when I attended West Coast Green a couple years ago in SF.
So yes the coming generations should be pissed but this idea the earth is going to combust is ridiculous and to what extent is this climate change natural? I for one am very interested in sustainable fuels, the most promising being algae biofuels. Since I am an organic farmer I will say I use a large F250 lifted with moderately sized tires because I need the power, ground clearance, and traction so I spend my day being productive instead of digging myself out of muddy messes especially if I am pulling something. The interesting thing is we focus on this mile per gallon when looking at fuel efficiency and how it is measured in terms of polluting. I have made modifications to my truck so that even with the lift and large tires I can get 22 mpg on the highway. Prius drivers with a led foot will actually not get much better. If I were able to run algae biofuels I could get better mpg, more power and be clean burning. The stuff I just not readily available yet.
Am I going to give up my truck? No, not if you want tasty organic spinach on your plate. Am I a believer in this climate change? Not really. Do I believe in alternatives? Sure bring them on. Do I believe that driving a Prius is as ridiculous of an argument to make yourself look better, just as using the belief in Christianity is to make one’s self look better? Yes.
There exists no alternative energy source, no combination of alternative energy sources, and no system of combinations of alternative energy sources that can fully replace a single, coal fired electric plant built with 1930s era technology.
Well settle in for a dirt nap there then, Bubba, because I got news for you: the coal is going to run out someday. Look up the word "renewable" in the dictionary. Go ahead, we'll wait.
Whatever line of B.S. is being fed to the ignoramus pseudo-Christian trolls on this board sure has them screeching. Look behind the Rush & Hannity & Beck puppets, and see the fatcat oilmen feeding them their lines. As long as you remain convinced that there is no alternative that doesn't involve you sticking a hose in your gas tank and paying what the man tells you to pay, then you are a slave.
The rest of us are not so eager to forge the shackles for our own necks.
Like Keith, I wish you the early death and rapture you so look forward to.
"You can't say that CO2 will drive climate, it certainly never has in the past"
Consider the opposing point of view.
http://bit.ly/GlobalSwindle
---- Whatever line of B.S. is being fed to the ignoramus pseudo-Christian trolls on this board sure has them screeching. ----
Odd...
I'm Jewish not Christian, and I point out yet again the only religious cult on this theme, the only blind belief with Priests and with Indulgences is... the cult of global warming.
I REITERATE...
Realize that "settled" and "consensus" are antithetical to "science"!!!
http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html
regards
evildoc
Who is more green?
1. A senior citizen who drives a 4-wheel drive, 20mpg vehicle 20 miles a week to the grocery store, drug store, and library in a small northern town. (Needs the 4 wheel drive because there is 5 feet of snow in the winter.)
Or 2. A young person in Southern Cal, who drives a small, more fuel efficient car 500 miles a week commuting back and forth to work and to other destinations on the weekend.
1. A senior citizen who lives in a 600 sq. ft. area, uses 1 or 2 incandescent lights and a small TV on for part of each day and drinks tap water.
Or 2. A young person who lives in a 1200 sq. ft. house, has an average of 4-5 flourescent lights and various electronic devices on most of the day, and drinks a couple of plastic bottles of water a day.
If we really wanted to fix whatever problems that come from fossile fuels, mainly air pollution, which now prominently hangs over Phoenix, this is the answer:
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
The answer is not some stupid toyota POS that can't even stop when you tell it to and STILL USES FOSSILE FUELS!!
Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone with all you idiot Global Warming Cultists. We could get off gasoline if our politicians, including Algore wanted to.
Guess what buckaroos, they don't and you know why? Because man-made climate change is junk science and THEY JUST WANT YOUR MONEY. This really wears me out. Has any of the news lately about all the fudged numbers not clued everyone in to what's going on? It's a tax! It's a tax! It's a tax! It's a tax! It's a tax!
Between this and the bullsh*t wars that Obama is keeping us in and ESCALATING, I'm researching places in South America to flee to when this country finally collapses due solely to POOR LEADERSHIP.
I know some of you here get it, but those who have the pulpit and abuse it like Bush(oil family, nazi grandfather), Gore(oil money) and Obama (Goldman Sachs) are ruining it for all of us.
Ross said...
...I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone with all you idiot Global Warming Cultists...
...junk science and THEY JUST WANT YOUR MONEY...It's a tax!..."
Yep. The fascinating part is the manipulation of opinion, and the eagerness of the rubes to get worked up over it.
AS IF they would've given a shit of their own accord.
The more time we spend huffing and puffing at each others' throats, the less we have to ponder who is really stuffing their pockets.
If the yahoos are so worked up over climate and healthcare, what do they think about the TRILLION$ hauled off by the Banksters?
Pardon my gratuitous ad-hominem. Respectful discourse is immediately dismissed nowadays; poor form to pretend to it.
Keefer,
I'd like you to read the attched link and hear your response:
http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html
You are a smart guy and I'd like to hear what you have to say after reading this.
-Mike
---
I'd like you to read the attched link and hear your response:
http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html-----
Geez, I already posted this link twice in this thread. Keith pontificates. Not sure he reads suggested readings.
evildoc
Evildoc,
It's strange. Keith publishes our comments but chooses not to respond to the link or not to read it.
-Mike
"funny, i don't see this as a left right issue
I see it as a moral issue.
But isn't it funny that the ultra religious.....I guess it's all about ignorance though with the GOP"
Keith, saying something doesn't make it true. You don't see it as a left/right issue? Then don't bring up the right. I see you doing this type of thing a lot, actually.
As far as you flaming Christians, at my church we discuss climate and the environment a lot. We are told in the Bible that God gave man dominion over the earth, and with that dominion comes the responsibility to preserve and be good stewards of it. So please don't lump all Christians in with your hand-picked well-known ones!
Finally, IMO you are already on the wrong side of history with your breathless support of Obama during the election. You seem to be picking issues to be "right" about.
Geeze... This was once a decent blog back in the HP daze. Keif has turned out to be a hopeless algore worshipping libtard instead of a somewhat savvy bubblefinder. Oh well...
Any talk lately about the Barzialian rainforests being denuded to make jokenol. Those trees used to convert a lot of CO2. Now it is all to be blamed on energy. More moolah to be made by taxing the human consumption of energy than admitting that the trees should be protected as the population of humans, especially ones in Asia and India skyrocket.
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