This will be the BIG trend of 2010 - 2020. Americans leaving America in droves.
It can be done. It's not for everyone, but if you haven't given it a moment's thought, now is your moment.
Seriously, stop what you're doing, and think about it. Now is your moment. I'm talking to you.
There's a whole big world out there.
If you want to go - where would you go? And what's stopping you?
If you don't want to go - why not?
Retiring Abroad: Cheap But Different
More than 150 years ago a popular phrase urged Americans with unlimited financial prospects, "Go west, young man, and grow up with the country."
Today it's more like, "Go south, old man and you may outlive your money in Mexico -- or Costa Rica."
Retirement abroad used to be the purview of the well-to-do -- a luxurious reward of exotic locations, expanded horizons, prolonged travels and a life without schedules.
These days it's a matter of survival, or at least a rather drastic financial maneuver to make a dwindling nest egg last longer.
"It used to be divided between having an adventure and being able to go someplace affordable," says Rosanne Knorr, author of "The Grown-Up's Guide to Running Away from Home: Making a New Life Abroad."
"But I'm getting more and more questions about where are the most affordable countries you can go," she says.
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60 comments:
I'm going to south america to chase pigs?
Anyone have any deliverance clips they can share?
going to Vietnam. Looking to buy a place there within the next 5 years.
I currently live in both the US and another country. Planning to keep doing the same until I die. I like the diversification/security this strategy offers me.
I would highly recommend people consider Australia if they want to leave, especially those in living in the West coast.
1. They like Americans (well probably up until this year).
2. No language barriers.
3. Plenty of natural resources.
4. Relative stable economy and gov.
5. Close to Asia.
I wish I could move there, but unfortunately having an all east coast family and children it would be hard to leave. I am just hoping that stocking my cash in foreign currencies and gold will allow me to take advantage of what is going to happen here over the next 5 years.
Already been thinking about it. Avoid africa, with the exception of Namibia.
South America has Argentina and chile, and uruguay. I would avoid anything between them and mexico.
Canada is great.
Europe is very nice. Avoid anyplace that has to pull oil for heating.
Russia and most former soviet states are too unstable.
India is a a wreck. Thailand, vietnam, and those areas i nhtere are nice. Tiwan is amazing, but is chinas bitch. THey are also a big concern for areas around there. Japan is fantastic, but I dont think youd ever be fully accepted as a westerner.
Austaila and new zealand look mighty interesting, but i wonder about energy, water and economy.
I am having a real hard time deciding on whether to move to an overpriced tiny flat in a dingy neighborhood in Europe.
Or in a gray cement tenement in Arabia.
The choices are just too difficult.
That picture reminds me; Wouldn''t it be cool to be Al Gore, or Planet Gore as I've heard recently, and make tens of millions of bucks selling global warming then spend the money on private jets and 20k sq ft houses that spew carbon from every duct and crack?
That would be AWESOME!!!
Keith:
As a self-employed webmaster like yourself, this does bring up some interesting possibilities. My main concerns is that I need dependable electricity and cheap (& fast) Internet access. I don't mind learning a new language, eating some new food and learning about a new culture, but would like--at least--to have some of the comforts of home. And, of course, it can't be so expensive that are worse off than in the USA. Suggestions? France, Germany? Australia as someone else has suggested?
Why do people stay in Detroit?
Serious question.
Humans left Africa thousands of years ago, in a search for a better life.
They'll do it again.
It won't be a choice.
Webmaster? Sh*t, I've got no computer skills. Blogger is a piece of cake. My grandma could blog.
But if you're looking for my advice on places to consider, try Eastern Europe.
But shhhh... don't tell anyone. And to each his or her own.
Dresden is supposed to be cheap and very nice. May check it out as a retirement location in the near future.
I dream about bugging out, but reality is that I've got my family and profession anchoring me here, so it looks like I'll be riding this one out.
Retirement is far off, but Greece will be part of that picture (if the country still exists). I doubt I will ever completely leave the US, but will most likely say adios to California.
Gaza.
Plenty of diverse culture...
How about the Philippines?
Keith,
In regards to your comment about moving to Eastern Europe. I have already done that. I spent last year in Western Poland. My wife is Polish and I speak enough of the language to make friends, but we made a cognizant decision not to stay longer than we had originally planned.
The infrastructure is ok, but has a lot to be desired. There are too many inadequancies there and frankly we couldn't justify allocating our resources to setting up a permanent life there.
I have traveled throughout Eastern Europe and while it is a very cool place to visit and even live for awhile, the wife and I know we could not do it permanently.
The infrastructure for middle class Americans is pretty comfortable. It is hard to leave that. Hell, even France, while nice, still has a lot to be desired.
Anyway, there is my two cents.
There is a small, newly impoverished country filled with foreigners very close to us, which has cheap housing and a good climate to grow your own food. They speak mostly Spanish there but some English might be understood. It could be a new frontier for disgruntled Americans. I think they call it Caleeeeforneeya.
Penso que si.
Why do people stay in Detroit?
----------------------------
the weather and the great music scene.
Before I go running off to a 3rd world country to live in luxury, I might want to know how Americans will be viewed after all this crime is exposed to the rest of the world, and America's influence isn't what it used to be.
keith:
"Why do people stay in Detroit?
Serious question.
Humans left Africa thousands of years ago, in a search for a better life."
I totally agree. I keep telling people who say there aren't any jobs to move where there are some.
Suzanne alert.......
Suzanne alert........
I swear I just saw Suzanne in a Mult-Grain Cherios commercial.
I had shivers down my spine.
Am I dreaming or is this true.
Oh the humanity! How can I eat another sweet Cherios again without feeling dirty
Pardon me.
it was the evil wife with the head-pump.
But it still scares me.
Leaving CA for Argentina for a year (maybe 2) starting July - out of the frying pan into the fire?
Thinking about leaving now...
No welfare checks or tax refunds in cali... Escape from LA anyone.. or mad max??
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/16/california.debt/index.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget17-2009jan17,0,4472460.story
$h!ts about to hit the fan...
"Why do people stay in Detroit?"
The city itself is just a place to work during the day. Everyone leaves at 5:00 pm and the city closes down.
30 minutes away in the NW suburbs you are in another world with homes prices unlike those of any other major city.
As if cali wasn't enought...
Kentucky running out of money too...
http://www.whas11.com/news/local/stories/whas11-topstories-090115-unemployment.7b52c5d.html?npc
I plan to move to London, specifically "Fleet Street". In the heart of the "City". I want to rub elbows with the Rothschilds. I want to work for the Lord Mayor of London. I want a 2 million pound 300 sq ft apartment. I want to be where the Headquarters of the Power Elite make their plans to rule the world. I want to watch as it happens here in the Power ELite Endgame (2009 - 2012). I want to watch with shock and awe as the One Wurld Gubbement and One Wurld Religgen gets forcefed down America's throat. I want to watch as the Suthern Redknek's pump them 12 gauges from the seat of their Big Horn Ram Trucks as the One Wurld soldierboys round them up for the work camps all over Amerika. I want me a newspaper filled with fish and chips as I sit on the corner and watch on the free big screen teevee as it happens. And go and quahf down another "paant of Brown Ale". Or I could do this in Frankfurt, or Paris, or Florence or-----?
Nawwwwww I will just stay here and help my neighbors pump them shotguns. That would be the right thing to do!!!!
With rent going down, why not retire in the US.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/apartment-owners-feel-pain-too/story.aspx
If fewer people are buying homes, you'd think that rental properties would be in high demand. But job losses and a sour economy have also eroded demand for apartments, according to the latest data from the National Multi Housing Council.
"Once again, apartment firms are facing tough market conditions not of their making," said Mark Obrinsky, NMHC's chief economist, in a news release. "Earlier in the decade the bubble-induced rise in homeownership eroded apartment demand; now the economic and financial collapse caused by the bursting of that bubble is taking a toll.
uruguay... I am giving up the biggest last secret in the world but I love all my hp ers uh I mean s&a ers. uruguay. you will only have a few more years. check it out. it is the real and last and only best place left. really. really, really! ok. last time i will say it. done my duty for my friends. peace out.
If you leave the United States then you might miss out on the next ponzi scheme.
Remember ten years ago any guy off the street can take several weeks of HTML programming training then drive to dotCom bubble capital of the world - San Jose, California - and make six figures salary.
Just three years ago tany guy off the street can take several weeks of training as a mortgage broker then drive to Subprime bubble capital of the world - Irvine, California - and make six figures salary.
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-
work/article/106443/Six-Figure-
Jobs-You-Don%27t-Need-a-College-
Degree-For
Jobs That Can Earn More Than $100,000 Without College
Are you sure you will have money to retire.
16 days into 2009 and two more banks have failed.
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/
individual/failed/banklist.html
Eastern Europe? What, after all the riots die down? Maybe then.
I've been living in Thailand last 2.5 years. Wanted to move back to the US 6 months ago but found another well paying job here.
It's a nice place to visit but living and working here takes some getting used to. Lots of small frustrations and foreigners will never have the same rights as the locals. For example foreigners can never own land in their name. Also if you get into a car accident with a local you will always be the one held at fault, even if someone rear-ends you- simply because as a foreigner, you have more money.
Before trying to move to a place, check it out for a few months to ensure you aren't smitten by the novelty.
-Mike H.
Anyone planning to retire outside of California.
http://www.nwitimes.com/articles
/2009/01/16//business/business
/doc4de0c158e40675f58625753
f0059af45.txt
Go East, young man? Californians look for the exit
The number of people leaving California for another state outstripped the number moving in from another state during the year ending on July 1, 2008. California lost a net total of 144,000 people during that period -- more than any other state, according to census estimates.
It is the fourth consecutive year that more residents decamped from California for other states than arrived here from within the U.S.
A losing streak that long hasn't happened in California since the recession of the early 1990s, when departures outstripped arrivals from other states by 362,000 in 1994 alone.
Why are so many looking for an exit?
Among other things: California's unemployment rate hit 8.4 percent in November, the third-highest in the nation, and it is expected to get worse. A record 236,000 foreclosures are projected for 2008, more than the prior nine years combined, according to research firm MDA DataQuick. Personal income was about flat last year.
With state government facing a $41.6 billion budget hole over 18 months, residents are bracing for higher taxes, cuts in education and postponed tax rebates. A multibillion-dollar plan to remake downtown Los Angeles has stalled, and office vacancy rates there and in San Diego and San Jose surpass the 10.2 percent national average.
Median housing prices have nose-dived one-third from a 2006 peak, but many homes are still out of reach for middle-class families. Some small towns are on the brink of bankruptcy.
I know a guy, a 50+ Mexican, that has lived in Texas since the late 70's. He has traveled Mexico and bought art for his collection. He says, that there are nice places along the coast that are peaceful, mostly the gulf coast.
Then again, I know a very wealthy guy that just built a house in Porte Vallarta , a very smart man, but, homosexual, strangely enough, I think the rich in Mexico will always have enough weapons to save the rich, as they fly back to Jersey, or Miami, or Dallas.
But, if you look at the defense dept., or cia, they say Mexico has a very "good" chance of becoming another Pakistan. That just came out recently, one reason I don't trust X-mexicans to tell me the truth.
I've seen Mexicans go "loco", seriously, but for the most part, they are very clever people. The problem with them is, that they don't "age" very well. The women go into menopause, sometimes in their mid-thirties. I think the adverse reaction by them, is to catch-up with evolution, and that leads to having many babies as young as possible.
So, this could be a problem moving to Mexico, or Costa Rica, (they do have legal prostitution), and aids is becoming a problem and everywhere that sex is an excepted form of commerce, I'd not retire there.
buh- buh..... i like being close to food sales and my cook stove, my television and computer, cooling and heatings
Warsaw is a beautiful city and the women are drop dead gorgeous.
And not all of India is a "wreck", the SW part is quite nice...
from what i hear economically Poland and
poles are doing sense..............
Brazilians demand Louis C.K. as Obama's Press Secretary:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Z_ZducwbQ
since Mitch Hedberg is no longer available:
http://tinyurl.com/8yypqb
Keith,
What countries or specific cities should I check out in Eastern Europe?
Thanks!
So what happens if the place you retire to ends up being more fucked than the U.S. and you as an American are hated even more and more as they don't only look at you as the "Rich American" but you're one of the ones that fucked up the global economy.
What happens if you're in a Latin American/Asian/whatever country and their government decides to nationalize foreigners bank accounts and RE holdings (assuming you buy a place and have a local bank account)
Foreigners will smile to your face (Why not? You're a tourist, even if you live there, and spend money in their country) but in reality, they really don't like you very much and no matter what, you are never fully accepted. They'll treat you like a novelty for a while and the attention from that is great, but after a while, you're just another American.
So, I'll just probably live somewhere cheap and visit foreign countries rather than live there.
On Eastern Europe - Bulgaria and Croatia are great. Crimea is stunning. Kiev is alive. Ljubljana is out of a picturebook. Budapest is culture and food heaven. And each place has its own character, it's own history, it's own wackiness.
And yes, there's gonna be some nasty stuff happening throughout the zone in the next two years, the infrastructure is terrible, the conditions are 3rd world, the governments are corrupt. Wars may break out. So careful out there.
I wouldn't recommend Mexico, not in a million years. And if you want McDonalds, Wal-Marts, chicken wings, strip malls and all life's conveniences, don't do it. Stay put in the USA.
But remember, you only get one life. I hope it's interesting.
Nawwwwww I will just stay here and help my neighbors pump them shotguns. That would be the right thing to do!!!!
January 17,
Ford one ton diesal. 300 win mag rifle. I can't wait until these one worlders approach their endgame.
I love the US with all its flaws and flavors. No place is perfect and running is never a good answer. I am an American to my roots and will stay and fight. The fact that we elected this incoming President is evidence that we are aware that we need to fix it. So the next step is we stay and fight and fix it. With Obama as our head coach, our team is strong and will be victorious.
Rah, Rah, USA!!
I spent almost half of my life living outside of the US and my wife and I are really considering moving back. We have only been back in the US for 2.5 years and we think it might be time to leave again.
www.babylontoday.com/national_debt_clock.htm I think you might find this interesting? It's a real eye opener!!
Just my 2 cents worth,
I would also say the Philippines. The weather and the women are hot, everybody speaks English and the cost of living is dirt cheap. Right now a dollar is worth about 47 peso, so you can live quite well on $1000 US per month. Also Manila has the only U.S. VA outside the USA, and women there really love white men !
Already did it. Got tired of waiting for the bubble to pop and moved to Germany. I figured I'd have an adventure for a few years and then come back to the US and by RE cheap. I was guessing the recession would hit Germany a year later than the US and that the US recession would only last a couple of years. But the recession hit here at the same time as in the US and I think it will be a decade before the US recovers. Only time will tell if this move was a great or terrible idea.
Keith, why do you hate America so much? Sure we have problems, but for God's sake, we are the greatest country in the world. I would not want to live anywhere else (unless if there is an economic disaster).
I don't hate America - I hate our corrupt leaders, who got us into this mess.
Why would an expat blog about America? Because he loves it, and hates to see what it's become.
Got it?
Oh, I don't like the strip malls, consumerism, debt-culture, obesity epidemic or realtors either.
But patriots and people who love America try to make it a better place. A shining city on a hill.
Why I bother, some days I do not know.
Practicing my Tagalog right now....I emigrated to the USA 20 years ago to get away from socialism and high taxes and damned if it didn't follow me!!! Conscription of the 18-24 year olds will be my trigger to go. Good Luck everybody!!!
Gonna stay back and forth between Vegas and L.A., although L.A. is looking to be the better deal in cost of living and staying healthy.
Housing will wind up cheaper in Vegas but I get sick of forking out 3x dental costs in Vegas so I commute to Santa Monica...kind of like Californians commute to Mexico for medical/dental care, Las Vegasians commute to SoCal for theirs. Sad.
The care in SoCal is more of the "get it fixed" mentality, while Vegas is the "keep it going" mentality. Get sick of that too.
Must make the monthly drive to SoCal to get decent fruit, breads, coffee's, organic stuff....Vegas bins are not full, and they are still a growing town and charge growing prices.
Vancouver would be a pure dream but need the energy from family and friends here so, no go.
Why would anyone retire in countries with sub par medical and dental services is beyond me. Just look at the teeth of citizens from those countries. You want to retire close to a place that has very good medical facilities. That's why wealthy people from all over the world come to America to do heart surgeries, etc. Go ahead and retire in places like Bulgaria, so when you get a simple appendicitis you end up dead. Dead at 60. Nevermind the crappy buildings you'll have to live in, with crappy utilities, and unstable political system.
I chose Oz, obviously, and I like it just fine. One thing that Americans overlook when they contemlate expatriating is the legal difficulties of getting into another country.
Can you get a visa to allow you to stay within those borders? Can you open a bank account or get a driver's licence? Can you get a taxpayer ID number, or whatever the local equivalent is to a Social Security number? You won't find work without one, not decent-paying legal work, that is. There's a lot of red tape to cut through, and not everyone is mentally equipped to deal with it.
Second, not everyone can adapt to changed circumstances. My wife lived in numerous places around the U.S. and is well-traveled internationally. But little things like not being able to buy butter in neatly-wrapped sticks of 1/4 pound each, marked off in 1-tbsp increments, drives her crazy. (To give one example amngst many irritations.) She's a good cook and bakes a lot, so having to measure the correct number of grams for each recipe gets to her. It's a small matter, and wouldn't bother me, but some people get worn down by the parade of minor impositions like that when they're in a new society, even one as similar to America as Australia is. You have to judge your tolerance for doing things a different way to what you're used to.
Lastly, there's the matter of friends. Go to a different country, you're going to only see family and friends for a short time each year, if that. Doesn't matter to me, because I makes friends easily, albeit shallowly. I don't pine for those I left behind. Many people do.
All things to consider when you have expatriating on the mind. It's a nice dream, but a more difficult reality.
We pay cash for health care in a country with more doctors per capita than anyplace in the world but Cuba. The cost of said health care is about the same as the copay we used to pay for health care in the US, less actually. Our house and land cost $105,000 and is paid for. New brick construction with a well and a metal roof and 1/3 acre. The heat is sub floor radiant heat. Municipal and Provincial taxes are $less than $350 per annum combined, groceries are 1/3 US costs, everybody is happy, the scenery is among the best in the world, it is cosmopotitan in it's large cities and laid back in it small towns, we have a small pension and are very comfortable, we don't have or need a car because the public transport is fabulous. Our town is crime free with only one shooting in the past 12 years and that was a couple of cops who got mad at each other. There are very few guns though there are some sports hunters. Regligionists are virtually absent except for a few embarrassing American prosletyzers and music and dance and art are subsidized by the government. We have a lousey President but as far as I can tell not much damage is being done. Mostly, everyone is happy and polite and if you think I am going to tell a bunch of self centered Americans who use foul language, are rude to strangers and can only think about money where we are you are nuts. It ain't Poland, we lived there, and there is no place colder than Warsaw in the winter. Not Croatia, though we would if we could afford it, not Bosnia, gorgeous but sitting on the edge of another war waiting for it to happen is not my idea of a relaxed life, not Bulgaria, the mafia has such a strangle hold on society there that you can't leave home without your washing machine getting up and walking away without anybody seeing it in the middle of the day on a busy street. And it ain't Spain or Portugal where all the Brits helped destroy ever picturesque little town in the past ten years. That is all I am going to tell you because here, Americans are looked upon with tolerance but rather like ill mannered and high strung dogs. Not in the arabic shoe throwing sense, but in the wasteful, dirty, dangerous sense. It isn't just the fat knees and ugly shoes that give them away. We planned on leaving for 7 years and looked for 4 and have been gone 3 years. It didn't take a rocket scientist to see that the good old American way was leading to doom.
My husband emigrated to the US from the UK in the 70s. He had been working overseas in the Oman, as well as in South Africa. By working overseas he a)had a job when times were tough and b) avoided paying confiscatory UK taxes. The money he banked helped pay for our first house. You can still go to the Middle East (Dubai,Beharain etc) and bank a tidy sum; we know plenty of people who have done it. In the 1970s my FIL was in the 90% tax bracket; this was pre-Thatcher. The man had more schemes to hold on to his cash than you can possibly imagine. I hope we are not heading the way of pre-Thatcher UK in the US.
I think the real issue is "where will your money be safe?" I know plenty of South Americans who have had their businesses taken away by the government. Even bank funds are taken over in some countries. But then, how nominally different is that than California unable to mail out tax rebate checks? In other words, who knows where your money will be safe?
I have loved living and traveling overseas, but it can be a cultural adjustment and you need to be a flexible person to do it. I would love to spend part of the year in Mexico, although not in a town with prices jacked up by Americans, like San Miquel de Allende, beautiful though it is. There are so many beautiful, untouched places in Mexico. And there is plenty of fresh food.
My husband would never move back to London. His family doesn't have it bad in Saint John's Wood , but he prefers his convenient and less expensive life here. We both like Spain, but even when we left 3 years ago after living in Madrid for 3 years, broadband was still not available in a home setting and it took 6 weeks to get a phone installed. The daily activities of life and the Spanish people are wonderful. I'm sure Mexico is probably worse in terms of modern conveniences. My daughter did have DSL in her apt. in Mexico City.
Handling questionable utilities can become a big part of your life in lower cost countries, or even places like Spain and Italy. You have to be able to roll with it to live overseas. If you are a woman just forget having a clothes dryer, even in most of Europe. Now do you want to live in another country?
Now, I would be the first one to admit that a fluffy towell right out of the dryer is a heaven sent delight but clothes dryers take more energy than anything but a hot water heater. I have always hung my clothes out on the line during half the year and prefer that to indoors but, get a grip! Most people have found tidy and inconspicuous was to hang them indoors in the winter. Soon those who use clothes dryers will be looked at askance as wasteful little piggies just like SUV drivers. Besides guys and gals, do a little more natural stretching to hang your clothes out and you won't have to pay for those expesive yoga classes.
To each their own. I would not chastise my fellow Americans before taking a good look at my own lifestyle.
I moved to Germany, Munich to be precise. I love not having to need a car, the public transportation, the compactness and easy access to everything and the bike paths. But I will not wag my finger at my fellow Americans because they chose to live miles away from work, commute immense distances for food, pleasure and pay. Consume disproptionate amounts of energy to power their homes and vehicles.
That would be wrong. If giving the choice, I believe most Americans would welcome a change to something better. But since there is no choice for them at this point - how can you criticise them? They are trapped and decided to make due and get as comfortable as possible with the existing system.
Once that is defeated, Americans will be the heartiest supporters of mass transit, nodal villages and cities, and energy-efficient lifestyles. But this will take more than 25 years. Europe has the leg up here. It's infrastructure is already in place.
WHERE the Hell ELSE are you going to GO????
The US might suck right now and for the next 5 years, but it will suck a whole lot less than almost anywhere else in the world!!!
If you want to go - where would you go? And what's stopping you?
Staying in the states. Probably Hawaii
If you don't want to go - why not?
Family. We used to talk about retiring abroad, it was our original plan many years ago. But, as I get older and lose more and more of my family, I realize I want to spend as much of my remaining time with them as possible. And I do not have grandchildren yet, but when I do I want to spend all my time with them, if possible. I don't want to crowd my children but I want to be as close as I can.
Also, we are fortunate financially and I want to be a readily available support system for family as well, especially my children as they start thier families.
So Hawaii it is. Golf 365 days a year, family never further than a 10 hr plane ride at most, a great spot for them to come visit and stay (going to have a BIG house with many rooms and fly family in as often as they will come). Besides, I have never spoken to one person living in Hawaii who was stressed. they are always laid back and relaxed no matter how bad it gets. Thats what paradise does to you.
There's a whole big world out there.
We have seen quite a bit already and we do plan to do plenty of traveling. So long as it doesn't interfere with family time. And besides, why would I want to go anywhere else besides Hawaii? 85 degrees, blue skies, beautiful scenery, anyone who says they get tired of perfect weather all the time has never spent any considerable amount of time in a cold climate. Perfect weather is just that, perfect!
"And besides, why would I want to go anywhere else besides Hawaii? 85 degrees, blue skies, beautiful scenery"
Well... both Oahu and Maui are rather expensive and crowded, if you want moderately cheaper housing.
The most affordable area in Hawaii is the big island, in and around the city of Hilo, the college town of the Univ of HI. Unfortunately, it rains a lot in those parts but as far as a second civilization (east Asian & Polynesian) but within the political USA, that would be it. Laid back, friendly, and no rush to get somewhere but at the same time, a place to take some classes and do some interesting things with one's free time. It's also a good place for kids to grow up than in some suburban cul-de-sac in a 'Desperate Housewives' type of culture. I'd pick that over Boulder CO, Burlington VT, or Austin TX, if I didn't need a mainland type of career. Otherwise, I'd pick one of the mainland spots just to be able to get home easier.
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