4-day workweek or you're fired.
You pick.
January 17, 2009
Should the US government and most companies immediately cut back to 4-day workweeks? (Along with a 20% cut in pay of course?)
4-day workweek or you're fired.
You pick.
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64 comments:
I don't have a workweek at all but I'd choose to accept the offer if I did. Those rigid 40-hour workweeks are so-o-o Soviet!
Are you kidding?
They'll start by laying off expensive boomers and hire them back as consultants at half the price before doing that.
Why Not?
Which commandment is it that said "Thou shalt work 5+ days a week"?
If I ever got the chance to work a 4 day week I see it like this...I have one life to live here and it is rapidly passing. The more time I have to spend doing what I Love/Want to do is better...much better.
I am baffled because whenever this subject comes up at work its always 75% who would choose to work MORE than 5 days...guess the bill collector has them by the balls or the wife nags the crap out of them.
Yes.
Some people actually enjoy their jobs. I work well over 40 hours and since I'm salaried, they are donated. Granted my salary is more than enough to make it worth while.
I have worked more than 55 hours per week for the past twenty years due to the demands of my job. In my mind, anyone who works a 40 hour week is a part-timer in my book. So, if people now even work less, I will consider these people to be semi-retired.
These guys are certainly cutting back: Villehuchet, realtor Steven Good, Madoff, Schrenker, Adolf Merckle, now another scam artiste on-the-lam...
Won't any of these gentlemen show some style with a window-leap onto Wall St.???
Let's at least pay tribute to the historical perspective here.
20 years of 55 hour workweeks?
I have a word for that.
Slave.
You get one life. You can spend it slaving, working yourself to the death in the desperate and unending pursuit for that almighty buck so you can buy more cheap sh*t from China.
Or you can consume less, and enjoy life.
But hey, to each his own.
Four day week? hah. Before I retired, if you didn't put in 50 hours per week, 10 hours gratis, you were rated low and guess what that meant. Low increases or layoff.
Today, four days means that you get paid 30 hours for working 60 plus hours. It's just a hidden pay cut. That's what competition for jobs means today. If you remain complacent, you are screwed. As a boomer, there used to be a saying "there is always someone looking to take your job", now it's a bunch of people.
It's survival, folks, even for the evil Wall Streeters. Goldman and like don't need wizes to run a boring commercial bank. They can hire MBA monkeys from State U. The blood will flow.
Incidently, I survived the post Cold War depression (early 90's)in aerospace companies when a million jobs were lost in the business. I came out pretty working my ass off.
I don't see that happening in my industry where our bosses are always trying to push us to work a 7 day work-week.
Keith said:
"Slave."
I totally agree and it's especially counter-productive in creative industries where you need time off to research and explore and expand your skillset. Employers are just never that bright to understand this...
We just started the 4 day work week and 20% sal reduction. I am fine with it. Some people aren't - as they spend their entire paycheck to live. (I am pretty shocked at how many older people do this...younger I can understand, lack of experience and not enough time to accumulate savings. But the older ones, WTF??)
I actually leave the office, others are staying and working for free. That could be a problem for me...management looks and sees who is working for free and maybe keeps them. I talked one person into leaving on their "free" hours" ...yeah, I am politcal... Already had 2nd round of very deep layoffs.
I look at this as a somewhat gradual departure from my job. I am not optimistic about keeping it.
To poster working 55 hours a week! If you love your job, that's great if not, feel for you. Used to do that, but got lucky with this job...7 years!
I have had my hours cut back to 45 a week and am pissed. Everything I like to do in my free time is EXPENSIVE, so I have to work to support my hobbies. Golfing, drag racing, things I love to do. They require money, LOTS OF IT.
What do you guys do? Sit and smoke dope? Paint? Reead blogs all day? Pretty LAME. You cant LIVE life without money. You may think so, but your actually WASTING your life if you just sit around soaking in the sunshine. A rock can do that just as well as a human.
Share the pain, keep the gain. It is this type of war against the American worker which has resulted in our consumer-spending driven economy faltering. Businesses of all stripes, big and small, should insist that their customers, the American worker, share fully in the fruits of our economy. Only when the American working man and women feel confident to spend again will our economy get back on its feet. Paying the worker minimum wage and the CEO a sinfull amount simply will not allow any business model to succeed over the long run.
Keefer,
arent we getting tired of only bashing the US?
Is America really the worst compare to all other places?
Going to have a lot of bored, unhappy people out there Keith, and you KNOW what happens when sheeple get bored.
Years ago the company I worked for went to 4 ten-hour days. Union went along, management went along, and it was GREAT! Three day weekends all year long. At the end of a year, the company put it out to a vote to continue or go back to 5-day week. Supervisors and management all voted to stay with 4, rank and file voted almost unanimously to go back to 5-day week. Reason #1: They were BORED. They didn't have anything to do on their Friday off every week.
Go figure!
Oh, and as for working 55 hours a week, on jobs that I really loved, I've put in a lot more than that. Sometimes (not often) you get a job that makes you feel so good about yourself and what you are doing, that the time just flies!
Not everything takes a lot of money to do - I bought a used kayak, and am on the SD Bay most days (free), bike a lot (on a used bike of course from Craigslist), and volunteer one day a week at the Air and Space Museum. . . been retired 3 years, and love it - lost 10 pounds by not sitting in a cube all day. . .I am getting by on less money, and walk most places, so my car insurance went down with fewer miles driven. . .going out to Vegas next week for a $23 room at Stratosphere (they are almost paying people to go). Don't gamble, so just do a few 1/2 price shows, etc. I could knock 20% off my budget even now.
My last two years at work, I took 10% reduction in time/money, and really didn't notice it.
JustSayin' said...
I have worked more than 55 hours per week for the past twenty years due to the demands of my job. In my mind, anyone who works a 40 hour week is a part-timer in my book. So, if people now even work less, I will consider these people to be semi-retired.
I have several words for that.
1) Idiot.
2) Liar.
3) False Bravado.
4) Heart attack & early death.
anyone who works a 40 hour week is a part-timer in my book. So, if people now even work less, I will consider these people to be semi-retired.
I have one response that sh1t like that:
F*ck You.
Keith,
I'm good with the 4 day workweek, but the 20% cut I have problems with: This whole fiasco may have been fueled by rabid speculation, but credit enabled this country to really blow it. So what does this have to do with a reduced workweek/wages? Because wages desperately need to go up. Even if you don't try to live beyond your means, you are still expected to rely on credit for everything from school to medical bills. I am always amazed when I meet people who were able to work at modest jobs and pay their way through college in the 50s/60s. Try that today; there is not enough hours in the week.
The real shame is that the government/industry is unwilling to admit what the real problem is. Instead of trying to cure the credit crunch with cash, we get more credit. What people really need is to make their flipping bills without relying on Visa.
BO is considering forcing a 4 day work week with a 20% reduction in pay. but he wants to force companies to hire 20% more workers. He said it worked well in france when they implemented a 36 hour work week and used the extra 4 hours for every 9 employees to hire another.
To each his own folks.
I work a 4 day week, but cram 40 hours in to it. It's not my choice and I don't feel like it's a particularly healthy lifestyle.
I could live with less money and less things. I really value my free time and leaving at 8:15 am then coming home by 7:45 pm really kills just about any activity that I want to do on those days.
Layoffs are not even discussed at my place of business and neither are reduced work weeks.
The way I see it, money ISN'T everything, but again, to each his own.
"What do you guys do? Sit and smoke dope? Paint? Reead blogs all day? Pretty LAME. You cant LIVE life without money."
Wow. What a shocking lack of creativity. One of the dumbest comments I've seen on a blog.
With a season pass at a ski hill, a 4 day work week means another day of skiing each week and costs you nothing.
In the summer a 4 day work week means an additional day of biking, hiking, canoeing, etc. Do you have a membership at your golf course? Golfing an extra day per week costs you nothing except all the balls you lose in the woods. But then, if you golf a little more your game might improve and you'll lose less balls.
And yes, sometimes I do blog all day long. Because I like it and, indirectly, it makes me money. I learn a lot of valuable information that I use guide my investment decisions.
I would love a 4 day work week and would gladly take the 20% paycut. But that's unlikely to happen because I bill my time to clients so my employer makes more money the more I work.
Excellent idea. Employees can enjoy more free time while still remaining employed and there are no unemployment costs to pay.
if we are going to institute that makes sure it is monday that is taken off insted of friday(their holy day). or it will be percieved as a victory by the islamoturds over the capitalist devils.
Problem in so many fields except perhaps government is there is always some jerk who is will do your job for less pay. Thanks to the perpetual growth machine there is a ready supply of brown nosing dolts and foriegners ready to take your place. 32 hour work week will never take root.
Cue a neo con fantasy about some type of labor darwinism.
Reality is most jobs require a properly shaped peg to fit the hole, period. Show up, do your job, if do extra you are messing it up for everyone.
another rescue plan that was not needed to begin with?
i do not think a 99.9 percent pay cut is a rescue
Four-day work weeks (with 10 hours each day) are becoming more common.
Some employees like this idea because it saves them money by not having to commute to work on the fifth day. They also get three days off each week.
On the other hand, some small family-run businesses are now operating extended hours, seven days a week because the rent stays the same no matter how many days or hours they are open.
P.T.
I think that the Federal government should just hire the entire human race at 100k a year. That way everybody will get health care and retirement. It should cost about 700 trillion dollars a year but I am sure we can finance it with some CDS techniques. In fact I think that we she should create a new unit of money called the Madof. It would be equal to the amount of money to hire every human being on the planet at a $100k a year.
That should do it.
DMP
“20 years of 55 hour workweeks? I have a word for that. Slave.”
I have another word for it, Keith—“Dad”.
I worked 55 hour weeks so my wife could stay at home and raise my kids rather than put my kids in daycare into the hands of a minimum wage stranger. Once the kids got a bit older, I continued to work these hours so that when my kids came home from school they would have their mom to greet them rather than an empty home. Now I continue to work to help my kids with college.
We don’t own a McMansion. We’ve never been to Disney. We don’t have (or buy) cheap junk from China. The money I earned was to afford a full time mother for my kids, and to help them avoid a crushing debt from getting a college degree.
Don’t think that everyone who breaks a sweat working hard and long hours is just doing it for the cheap toys.
If I could work 4 days/week at the same hourly rate, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Reading, writing, photography, biking, and just spending time with the family - I'd retire now if I could.
I don't care if you want to spend all your time working for a corporation, but don't look down on me because I have a life and you don't.
Won't further cut back in salary hurt the Commercial Mortgage Backed Security industry.
Guess why analysts are shocked by decline in the troubled $1 trillion market for bonds backed by commercial real estate loans.
If salaries and jobs continue to decline can delinquency rates for commercial property rise to 5% by the end of 2009
http://www.nasdaq.com/
Comml RE Outlook Getting More Dire As Credit Remains Frozen
The outlook for commercial real estate is getting more dire amid few indications that frozen credit markets will thaw soon.
"The likely scenario is this will be a really rotten year for commercial real estate," said Ross Moore, executive vice president of market and economic research for Colliers International.
With the credit markets in lockdown mode, consumer confidence battered and the U.S. in a painful recession, industry watchers expect a commercial correction as severe or worse than the one in the early 1990s.
A recent NAR report noted that investment in commercial real estate during the third quarter was down 70% to $34 billion. The organization expected that figure to plummet to 95% for the fourth quarter.
While all sectors in commercial property will be hit, industry experts expect hotels and malls to bear the brunt of the market downturn given relatively short leases and the rising number of retailer bankruptcies.
Dream on.
This notion might apply to people "woykin' fo da Man" in some shitty hourly or salaried job. What about the 20 million Americans who work for themselves?
These foolish government edicts will never solve any problems. I thought Obama was smarter than that.
Given that most "assets"--especially houses and stocks--have fallen 30%, it seems like the work week would shrink a little more than one day a week if most of the employees are going to be able to stay. (A dream, I know, but bear with me).
How about 25-28 hours? That's the equivalent of a 30% haircut. Unfortunately, that's too few hours for people to qualify for the few remaining "benefits," such as health insurance. So that's one drawback.
Another is American management's preoccupation with "face time" over outcomes, well known to every office worker of the last 100 years. So that's another drawback.
Historic corporate rigidity coupled with the greed so vividly on display in the last little while means...no straight or formal deal with workers is likely to occur.
Instead, permanent layoffs will occur for about 1/3 of the workers. The survivors will be paid for about 30 hours a week to keep their "benefits" but expected to donate an additional 10 or more "free" hours, because they'll be "lucky to have a job."
I would do this in a heartbeat but the subject is never broached where I work. I’ve done my time of doing 50, 60, 70 hour weeks. Tired of it, really friggin’ tired of it. Having never been a conspicuous over-consumer, having never bought into the philosophy of “good debt”, and being a true home OWNER it would be a piece of cake. Speaking for myself, I guarantee you I will never look back some day and regret the time I did not spend at work.
Yes, the government should cut back their hours and pay. It would be nice if private companies would do the same and actually stick to the reduced hours, but that is not going to happen.
What I am sick of is the pensions that government employee's receive. Most workers in the private sector do not receive pensions, so why should they be expected to pay for them for the government employees?
I have been in the trades for twenty years fighting the illegals to pay my men living wages. Everyone thought it was a good idea to have these 3rd worlder 7 doller per hour idiots wreck our shit. They were cheap. While they were wrecking our shit they were wrecking your houses and your economy. SUFFER you greedy pigs your day has come. It is our day to laugh. The WHITE collar boys are now going to get hammered. Welcome to real global economy America, we have been living it for ten years. Dumb f*cks.
If it came down to something like this the pay should be cut but the hours kept the same. The reason: to increase productivity. Wealth is determined by productivity. Among other things, we need to have greater output for every dollar of input (i.e. wages) in order to pull us out of this depression.
In other words: we have to work harder for less.
If you reduce output by 20% (a huge number) we will be in the toilet for a much longer period of time...and perhaps flushed into the sewer forever.
They did that sometimes in the Great Depression (Portland Oregon water bureau), and we're in an early Depression, so why not. If I had a job, I'd take 4 days, rather than zero, at least for the time being.
A friend in a small town is working at a McDonald's and her hours are being cut about 10-15 hours a week being sent home early.
She's thinking of accepting an offer of managing: 40 hours guaranteed, but hours all over the place and she doesn't do well with that. One reason she took the job was steady schedule while she dealt with a health problem.
A job in the hand is worth two in the paper.
Grandma PKK
4 day workweek? Wasn't that what technology was supposed to do for us in the 90's?
Justsayin said
I have worked more than 55 hours per week for the past twenty years due to the demands of my job.
So was it your JOB demands, not your "Daddy" demands. My Dad worked 60 hours a week for his whole life. I didn't get to know him until he retired. You'll understand when your kids are older and you don't know a thing about them.
In my mind, anyone who works a 40 hour week is a part-timer in my book.
Perhaps they are just paid better than you and don't need to slave 55 hours? Or maybe they aren't parents.
And, have you ever thought that while you're away at work, Wifey might be getting a little action on the side while your kids become drug addicts because "Dad was never around"?
I work about 20 hours a week and still make six figures.
still cheering the downfall of RE
anybody
I don't know what "should" happen, but I do think nothing has changed significantly in our lifetimes as far as work goes, and nothing is likely to, as far as I can see.
If you are middle class you get stuck with the worst of everything and it is hard to raise out of middle class.
I think you should just do the best you can. But I do know of many divorces that happened because someone was working so many hours (with the best of intentions) that they were never home. That's lonely and difficult for the one at home. You have to make your tradeoffs and it's not easy.
It is true that there is so much competition that if you want to stay in the game, you have to stay on that hamster wheel or you will get left in the dust.
If you stop, it's a crapshoot. But some let-up may be worth it at some time. That might be the silver lining of recessions also.
Buh buh aren't the high school dropout-union parasites already taking those hours just to press buttons on a machine, while earning six-figure salaries?
I don't agree with 4-day workweeks, but we should all demand 30-day vacations.
But I do know of many divorces that happened because someone was working so many hours (with the best of intentions) that they were never home. That's lonely and difficult for the one at home.
I really don't get these constant crying about being too long away from home, an excuse for splitting. You people must be newlyweds, because some of us celebrate when spouses get the f away for a while. I once stayed 3 months away from my wife, working abroad, and it was great for both of us.
Ha! Stay away from work for too long and your job will go buh-bye. Like those idiots who are taking vacation during this crisis..first to get the pink slip.
You people probably don't have responsibilities, like kids to support or health insurance to pay. One day you'll decide to grow up too...
Oh my gosh, I did the unthinkable, according to the new ultraliberal America. I actually worked my arse during the day while attending college on evenings. I'm so embarrassed! I should be like most of you Gen Y, doing what you do best: waaaahhhh waaaahhhhhh gimme gimme waaaahhh gimme gimme waaaaaahhhh I want to be a jet-setter stuck in a crappy European 200 sq ft flat that costs 2k euros per month in rent waaahhhhh
No successful self-employed can work less than 40-hour workweeks. If you say that you're making REAL money (no California bums or mommy parasites need to reply) working less than 40, you're full of $hit or delusional. You can't stay in business for long putting those lazy hours. I've been in business for more than 25 years. Dream on!
Oh and one more thing, those of you complaining about 40-hour workweeks should count the hours you cheat by surfing the web, taking long lunches, killing time on the phone, cigarette and coffee breaks, etc. Deduct all that to see how many hours you really work.
makes sure it is monday that is taken off insted of friday(their holy day). or it will be percieved as a victory by the islamoturds over the capitalist devils
We have a new contender for the Paul E. Math's "Dumbest comment on a blog" award!!!!
Yeppers, those "Islamoturds" are totally focused on every little twist and turn of what happens in the U.S., anonymous genius. And of course, EVERYBODY will be off work every Friday if anything like this happened. All stores and hospitals will be closed. The lights won't even come on. All Americans will sit aound in the dark. And magical Islamoturd djinn-mullahs will come seeping up from the heating ducts to convert them to Islam. Yeah, it's all part of a diabolical Muslim plot to poison our precious bodily fluids...
I did the 60 hour a week stress puppy treadmill routine for about 10 years and made a over 100K.
Now I'm working about 20 hours a week for about 40K which covers all my expenses.
Since, I have half of my day free, I have enough time to put together my own company and hunt up the occasional high paying consulting job.
Best of all, I owe hardly anything in income taxes which is where much of any additional hard work ends up going....to those incredibly stupid dickheads in Dee Cee.
In fact, when my income starts to approach the next higher tax bracket I either stop working or have my company stop paying me. A month ago I met all of my expenses with 4 hours of labor @ $750 per hour and farmed the rest of it out to another consultant.
The trick is to keep expenses low and have a rare enough skill set that you can work briefly for high dollar compensation.
If you work hard in this country the government is just going to steal or destroy everything you have anyway....so why bother?
"You people probably don't have responsibilities, like kids to support or health insurance to pay."
--------------
Well, I'm a man and I live in America so it is just about legally impossible for me to "have kids".
The Great American Castrati does not have possession of his children, they belong to his wife and he is merely a guest in his own home at the discretion of the woman.
The fact that most American men (sic) consider this state of affairs normal is even more pathetic than the clock-watching cubicle serfdom that pervades the employment scene.
I am a CPA that works as a CFO/Controller in industry. Since my son was born 11 years ago, I have not worked full time. I stayed at home for a couple of years and then went back to work part time. I insist on being paid hourly and will not accept a "salary". Being "salaried" is a joke. You still have to use vacation and sick time for time off and when you work extra, you get paid absolutely nothing. At least now, when I do end up working more than I want to, I am getting paid for it. It works out fairly for both sides and neither side feels taken advantage of.
I am (comfortably) salaried and already work ~40 hours only.
The tree is judged by the fruit it bears, and the engineer by his / her results.
Activity =! Results
Kellogg's offered 30 hr work weeks back in 1930 (5 X 6-hour shifts) and added a 4th shift. The short day folks were actually more productive.
Noodles-
To the guy who NEEDED $$$ to make it...Agree with you half way.
When I had $$$ all I did was spend more...I have nice things but come on do you really think it'll last forever?
Now that I downsized and took a 15% salary cut along with my co-workers and recieved 2 more days furloughed, I have so many women and stupid ass adventures.
Which do I prefer? Working my ass off and having nice things or being relaxed and getting sex from the many women not happy with their BFs/husbands who are never home or only worried about their "toys?"
Next time you see some Hispanic guy with a hot blonde drinking Maragritas in Monterey Ca. on an early Friday afternoon...Wave it might be me :P
Simply put:
Some people live to work, while others work to live.
If you had a life... you wouldn't be pushing so hard to be spending more of it at work.
And on the other side of the coin - I resent that somehow everything has to be revolving around 8 hours of productivity per day. If you're doing gardening, or on an assembly line job, sure - 8 hours of labour is ok. If you're actually using your brain, building, designing, programming, communicating,etc. you'll find your productivity drops dramatically after 4 or 5 hours. You can still LOOK busy, but you ain't. You're just prestending.
I'm sick and tired of the constant comments by people who cannot fathom that different people have different jobs with different requirements.
Garbage man != accountant != pilot != assembly line worker != programmer != landscape designer != politician != fireman != soldier != doctor != lawyer
Each job has it's own requirements - the idea that ALL of these jobs can fit into a nice 40 hour schedule is ludicrous and shows how brainwashed the masses have become.
Where do you fit in? That depends on the choice you made long ago about what carreer path you chose to follow.
Oh... and another thing... I'd say split the difference and make it 9 hours a day 4 days a week.
That would just make it a 10% paycut.
When I'd worked at a start-up, 60-80 hour weeks were pretty normal and then at 9 months, I'd gotten burnt out, took 3 weeks off and worked on a part-time contract.
From then on, I'd limited my work week to 55-60 hrs, during really busy periods and then 50, during the "slaving away to keep one's job" (Hint: being seen for x hours, but trying to deliver more work than usual) downsizing periods.
All and all, a pay cut doesn't necessarily mean less work. Usually, it means working probably the same number of days at 6 hrs per day, however, for all practically purposes, the OT is expected if you don't want to be added to the layoff list.
In other words, corporate America sucks.
What do you guys do? Sit and smoke dope? Paint? Reead blogs all day? Pretty LAME. You cant LIVE life without money. You may think so, but your actually WASTING your life if you just sit around soaking in the sunshine. A rock can do that just as well as a human.
--------
Some people actually help others. It does not have to cost much, it does not waste precious resources and it helps prevent anger, jealousy and retaliation.
Different strokes for different folks. Obviously, despite what you think, you have not lived enough yet to understand that basic concept.
arent we getting tired of only bashing the US?
-----
US, the 800 pound gorilla basically forced its weight upon the ROW. If you want to bash the ROW, go for it... it's still a lot or your doing.
"You may think so, but your actually WASTING your life if you just sit around soaking in the sunshine"
http://www.bme.duke.edu/grads/degrees.php
I know graduates of the above (& like) programs, who couldn't find jobs if they weren't doctors or a part of a medical school's MD program. In other words, valuable work and money aren't vis-a-vis correlated. I can see a person doing the kind of work, envisioned by the bioengineering curricula, at 55-75 hours per week but the chances are, that job doesn't exist and at most, what someone will end up doing is being a QA person for someone else, being taken advantage of as cheap intellectual labor.
All and all, it's best to cap one's hours at 8-9 hr days unless there's a "fast track" management track out there at your firm.
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