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June 6, 2009
Would you ever consider buying a GM, Ford or Chrysler?
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40 comments:
Kieth,
I can't wait to get the 2010 Ford TAURUS SHO, The car has already been named car of the year by Esquire magazine.
356 HP 3.5 Liter Turbo V6 Heated, Cooled, and Massage Seats. $38,000 and I currently own a BMW 5 and a Honda Accord.
P.S. Don't buy the 2009 Accord it's not the Honda I used to know.
RayNLA
Not unless they somehow learned to make good cars, ditch their insane management and stop spending more on commercials than they do on fuel efficiency.
Sure, if they were prices according to value, like $500.
Never.
America is Dead.
So are ALL the american car companies.
Good Riddance.
"Anonymous said...
Kieth,
I can't wait to get the 2010 Ford TAURUS SHO, The car has already been named car of the year by Esquire magazine."
Noted car experts Esquire magazine.
Is that comaprable to the NAR saying 'Its a Gret Time to Buy"?
Idiots. Go ahead, buy that Dearborn shit. Good Luck dipshit.
"I can't wait to get the 2010 Ford TAURUS SHO"
I applaud you for this decision , I saw one the other day and had to take a second look. Ford ROCKS !
Keith, Americans are too stupid to consider supporting US companies and workers.
Not until all of us are working for $8 an hour will most of us realize we helped even cheered as the elite killed the middle class.
Most Americans cheer GMs death, they don't give one tiny minded thought to the fact that we still have an estimated 200,000 more jobs that will be cut because of the GM BK, all across the supply and sales chain. These are good jobs that pay well and provide benefits. They will be gone and IF anything replaces them it will probably involve "would you like fries with that".
Jealous and ignorant Amwericans only see UAW hit jobs in the MSM and don't think about the engineers, thousands of supply companies, dealerships, etc. that have nothing to do with the UAW but get just as unemployed.
To answer your question, yes If I were buying a new car today those 3are the ONLY brands I would consider. Why, because ALL new cars are crazy reliable, everyone with half an open mind knows this.
Worst case scenario for me? I have to make one or two extra trips to the dealer for a warranty repair (if you believe the BS quality stories). That's what it all boils down to. Amercans would rather save themselves that tiny inconvenience (and most probably not even that) than support US jobs and companies. Just the thought that they MAY have to make that tiny, tiny sacrifice is enough for them to choose to send their money to japan or Korea.
Then they feel guilty and make all sorts of bogus statements like "Not unless they somehow learned to make good cars" to justify their turning their back on thier fellow worker for such a tiny perceived advantage.
GT Charlie
I am so tired of everyone bagging on the American auto industry. To all the Honda and Toyota lovers, have you driven an American car lately? Most of you probably no, because "they build junk". Who told you they build junk? The media thats who... this is the same media that tells you "the fundamentals of the economy are strong" Now they tell you that the "the economy is recovering" So do we believe this crap our media portrays?? My suggestion to you, is before you bag on American cars again, maybe you should go drive one. Before you criticize me, no i don't work for them. For myself i drive a 1996 Ford Taurus, which is super reliable, and I intend to buy another Ford soon.
Somebody posted recently that yes, it is true that Toyota and Honda are better made/more reliable; but only a little bit.
What's the diff, they averred, if you spend just a little more on maintenance; lose just a little more on depreciation than domestics...
Like to hear more about that theme.
.
Government motors
You can have any color you want as long as it's turd brown!
.
Ford yes.
Government Motors never.
Anyone who buys an American car (sorry Mexican car) is an idiot!!!
The only way I would ever buy an American car is if it was priced comparable with its quality..., which is about nothing.
Case in point: A friend of mine bought a Ford F150 right out of high school thinking he'd drive that thing into the ground. Spent about 20K too (this was back in the early 90s). The car lasted him 3 years. The engine went on him after 40K... The cost to fix the thing was more then its retail value (used). He opted to take whatever trade-in he could get for it as is and buy a new one. It lasted him 45K (problem after problem after problem...). He now drives a Toyota Tacoma and has never had a problem with the thing.
So you do the math; 6 years with 2 F150s (problem after problem) or 10 years with 1 Tacoma. Hmmmm...
I own a Mercedes C320 myself. I've had that car for over 8 years now and have put over 120K on her with no heart-ache. Beyond a routine 10K oil change, I've virtually spent nothing on her for maintenance. I've only had two issues with her in all these years. The 1st was when the car wouldn't shift gears properly. Reason, the battery was going dead on it after 4 years of driving. The 2nd was a couple of years after I replaced the battery, I noticed that the battery wasn't hold it charge overnight. Thought it was the battery again, but turned out to be a module under the seat that went bad. It kept thinking the car was on and was eating juice. MBenz wanted to charge me 1K to fix it. I went to a salvage lot and took the module from a car. Took it to my mechanic and he replaced it for me. Total cost $160...
I'll never buy American! Not until they get their heads out of their asses, start making things her in the US again, and put some pride back into their work again.
I will NOT buy a GM or Chrysler car. I would consider buying a Ford.
Now that GM is owned by the unions and government, there is no F....N way I will put my dollars to that company. NO WAY!
I own a Volvo and it drives pretty well. I definitely have had some issues with it (front strut or something had to be replaced; alternator died) but it's been pretty good after eight years and I love the turbo.
I rent American cars when I travel for biz and they just don't seem as good in terms of ride, feel, and dash ergomnomics. Recently, I rented a Chevy Impala from Hertz. The interior seemed pretty ok (for once); had good power too. But when I put down the rear windows about a third of the way (keeping the front windows closed) the car (or maybe it was the windows) started vibrating at modestly high speeds (45mph+). I couldn't believe it. I'd never experienced anything like this before with my toyotas and volvo. I regularly drive with the rear windows down and this issue would be a non-starter for me.
Maybe this problem was particular to this car but honestly, I doubt it.
GM is more or less dead. It will not survive as we know it. The govt. shafted the bond holders and took over the company so it can implement its green vision for the auto industry. With the union in its pocket, the govt. will re-focus GM to build green cars and have a compliant UAW do its bidding (as payback for giving it more control than the bondholders). This is one of the many steps the govt. is taking to turn America into a socialist country. I won't support it.
I WILL NOT BUY A CAR FROM A GOVERNMENT AND UNION OWNED CAR COMPANY.
SO LONG GM.
p.s. to the poster who lambasted people for not buying American cars because they don't want to be inconvenienced in going to the dealer more than they would if they bought a foreing car...F...K you! That is not how the marketplace thinks. That's only how greedy, lazy, incompetent UAW members (and their supporters) think.
Ford, maybe. GM, Chrysler no way. Not until they return every last dime they stole from us.
Case and point
" A friend of mine bought a Ford F150 right out of high school thinking he'd drive that thing into the ground. Spent about 20K too (this was back in the early 90s). The car lasted him 3 years. The engine went on him after 40K."
It's called OIL CHANGES STUPID !!!!
My 1990 F 150 has 350 K on the Odometer, " nuff said "
Dip Shit !!
No. Main reason is most of their cars are simply ugly. Chunky, shapeless, formless monsters. Sometimes I can't believe it when I see a new model. Do these dudes have no eyes???
Some halfhearted efforts here and there, but overall pretty bad.
Plus look at the dash, seats, doors, it all looks cheap and, again, ugly.
Let's see what Fiat can do with Chrysler.
Anon said...
I'll never buy American! Not until they get their heads out of their asses, start making things her in the US again, and put some pride back into their work again.
Well sir if you take your head out of your own ass you will see that Ford has accomplished the aformentioned. You can wipe your face now.
RayNLA
First off, let me say.
Hey Keith, I am hapy I found ths site!!!!! After the husing bust blog went away, I returnd to it after hearung about "the orange on", and saw the link to this blog,
I an happy to be back.
I own a 2003 GMC Envoy. Bought it used 3 years ago, no problems. Three weeks ago, a tranny leak started, I brought it to the dealer from where I bought it. They totally blew it. I got the truck back and that sane day a fire started in the engine compartment. Thank heavens I put it out with sand on the side of the road, but the lines were not installed properly. I have brought the truck in for the fourth time now. I will be picking it up tomorrow, and I pray it is properly fixed.
So, the moral of the story? Maybe the service given for these vehicles are also going down the tubes. These people are supposed to be GM qualified, and they could not replace two tranny lines properly, causing more major problems that were not related to the original problem.
Buyers beware!!!!!
My husband had a 2007 Impala (flexfuel) 4 cyl company car which was to my surprise a damn good car. It got about 32 MPG on the freeway. Trouble free except the CD player went out after only 10 months. The bad on the Impala-the doors have lousy hinges and dont stay open without springing back at you, and have somewhat uncomfortable seats on long trips, but besides that, its a pretty good car for the price with excellent gas mileage. An Impala, imagine that.
Our independent Toyota mechanic who has 25yrs experience, told us never to buy a Toyota after 2001. It seems they experimented with a 5 speed transmission, which has caused them lots of trouble in Camrys and Avalons.
In the early 1990's I owned an Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera...the worst car I have ever owned. The ashtray fell out of the dashboard one day, the headliner started coming unglued, the car's temp gadge would gradually go up when idling, the paint peeled off on the hood and roof. What a piece of junk.
On the other hand, after that I owned a 1993 Mercury Cougar, which looked and ran like brand new 13 years later (sold it in 2006). The only problem: minor oil leak. My husband always teased me the Cougar was built on a Friday before the Chrismas bonuses were handed out... in reality, I see more of this year Cougar on the road still to this day.
I've had it said:"But when I put down the rear windows about a third of the way (keeping the front windows closed) the car (or maybe it was the windows) started vibrating at modestly high speeds (45mph+)."
Anyone out there that can answer this? I remember the old 1970's car never had this problem, but most of the new cars do. What causes it?
My Hondas are built in Marysville, Ohio, and my Hyundai SUV was built in Montgomery, Alabama. All are good, reliable vehicles. I guess I should be ashamed though since these aren't "American" cars.
BTW I drove an "American" Chrysler rental car. Brand new car, but a complete POS. It was built in Mexico.
"Why don't we just get together and try to flip some real estate??"
But that's exactly what many government programs are aimed at doing.
I would consider buying a gm, ford or chrysler - I don't hate these companies or think they are innately incapable of making a good car.
They just don't have one that I would be interest in right now. So why would my government want to force me to buy a car, or a car company, that I don't want or need?
I'm hoping to buy a new or newish '08 or '09 Tahoe within the next year. I will use it as a tent, while camping.
Rock on, Chevy.
Anton
have had GM models last 20 years no problems built in Canada probably in the midst of those frozen tundra winters...Canada the country bought in 15 percent of GM (government motors)
maybe when some old soviets run it ..cause they would not dream of replacing parts at hundreds if not thousands of dollars instead of just putting in a dollar or two of seals and gaskets.....or something about clean hands......
Anyone out there that can answer this? I remember the old 1970's car never had this problem, but most of the new cars do. What causes it?
============================
My neighbor, retired from the auto industry, (sweating out his pension longevity) said that all new vehicles are actually designed to run down the highway with the AC on, and WINDOWS UP! since virtually everything has AC now! This is supposed to give better mpg than riding with windows down, AC off.
The air coming in the windows at high speeds, especially the rear ones, sets up a reinforcing harmonic vibration, thus the shaking. No attempt has been made to correct this, again because of the "windows up, ac on= better mpg" train of thought.
I prefer down windows myself. No shakes in my 3/4 ton.
I rest my case. ANY time this subject comes up the Benedict Arnolds come out of the wood work with all sorts of dambass reasons American cars suck.
"wind buffeting from windows rolled down at freeway speeds" LOL
"A friend owned an F-150 everything broke by 40k, now has a Tundra and 1 million miles w/o even an oil change" Never mind that F-150s should be placed in the record books for over-all longevity over the past 100 years and the Tundras is probably Toys biggest troublemaker. Search "Tundra problems" How come its not common knowledge that the Tundra is a troublesome model? Try and answer that as you are staring at your pink slip.
And like the one poster said, Toyota has had lots of issues with trannys, but you don't hear about that on the MSM and you don't read US car supporters making dumb statements here like "Toyota sucks, hope they die"
I especially laugh at the "I rented a US car and it was shitty" These dopes ussually own a higher end model Japanese car and jump at the chance to compare it to a base model US rental car. Ever rent a base model Corolla? Not fun. But base cars are meant to be cheap transpo and not to coddle your every sense.
As if anyone with a functioning brain could go drive a new US car and COMPARABLE Japanes model and get out of either and declare it a "piece of shit". No reasonable person would. Either will with 90% probability, go 130k miles with zero issues aside from maintenance. How reliable do you need to support your country?
Here someone even had the balls to say they would not support US jobs and companies because US models are ugly? ROTFL!!!
Japanese and Korean cars are to car design what work clothes are to clothing fashion. There is an exciting US model for any taste. Go Asian and you stuck with any number of vague twists on the standard eco-car design of the last ten years.
GT charlie
Like many others , I will never forgive Chrysler for discontinuing the JEEP Cherokee XJ. That Liberty thing is for women and I would not be caught dead in one.
The XJ had a huge commercial success and was 3rd behind the Silverado and F150. The poor decision making has served them fairly. The Patriot and Commander are now history. So is the whole company. Mercedes could not help them and now Fiat is stuck with this shit.
"So while the stock market was buoyed by May's less-than-expected overall job losses, many saw the report as grim. "The concern is that we're replacing $25-an-hour jobs with $12-an-hour jobs," says Peter Morici, a professor at the Robert H. Smith School of Business at the University of Maryland. Morici says this trend has been going on for decades in the U.S., but that "the recession is exacerbating this weakness in the economy."
-------------
Funny how this phenomenon has been going on about as long as US car builders have been losing market share to Japan and Korea?
Hey you Honda lovers, how much do you get paid?
Are you in IT or maybe an architect getting pretty good coin? How's that gonna work out when the average wage is cut-off at the knees? You think you are immune? Your are standing up near the top of the wage pyramid, is it starting to feel a bit wobbly underneath?
Hope they don't figure out how to have IT work and buildings designed in India or China.
When they come for your job who will be left to defend YOUR American job? Autoworkers don't deserve $27 an hour after 20 years but 28 year old IT guys will always get $80k a year two years into the job...LOL.
The US worker is the frog in the pan. Too bad most are watching, even cheering the other frog getting boiled, not realizing the the water in their pot is getting warmer.
GT Charlie
I have always owned at least one Japanese, European and American cars.
I like Toyota and Nissan the best. No leaks till 160,000 miles and simple maintenance till then. The parts are better and the factory service manuals are easy to follow. The worst thing is that after they are 8 years old they become targets for theft. I have lost all my Japanese cars to theft or theft damage. Big problem in Mexifornia.
BMW has great performance but cheap parts. Plastic water pumps, plastic radiator parts, plastic belt pulleys, cheap rubber hoses and cheap electronic switches in the interior. At about 120,000 miles, you need to replace every plastic and rubber part. Brake lines, vacuum hoses, pulleys, radiator, air intake hoses, etc. About $2,000 in uprgraded parts, online. Probably would've cost $10,000+ in repairs at the dealer. BMW dealership repairs are the biggest ripoff.
GM and Chrysler are ok. Biggest problems are leaks. After 80,000 miles, everything leaks. But they are easy fixes for the most part. The Factory service manuals are a nightmare compared to other companies. Plus parts from the dealer are way overpriced--as high as imports. But, they all seem to suffer from major mechanical failure at about 200,000 mi.
I will buy Ford as my next American car. I admire them for fixing themselves and not taking a bailout. I refuse to prop up GM and Chrysler. I have cut all my ties with companies that have taken bailout money.
Dip Shit !!
My friend, the one that owned 2 F150s and now owns a Tacoma, is a hard core car enthusiast. Not only did he change his oil on time, he kept his trucks like his babies. Unfortunately they didn't keep up. In fact his 1st F150 was stick, he picked a manual trani b/c he wanted complete control of his vehicle. His 2nd F150 was auto; the dealer told him he couldn't get manual even if he wanted. What kind of b/s is that?!?!
Its a simple fact, American cars are crap; I'm not making anything up to impress anyone...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing US made products. I'm as American as apple pie, but the simple truth is that US car manufacturers a long time ago made the decision to use cheep labor and parts. Why, to cut down on their bottom line for their cars sold and to increase the repairs that would eventually be needed. If you had any brains, you'd realize the car manufacturers and dealerships don't much money on their car sales. Where they make their money is on accessories and service. Duh!!!! That was one of the main reasons people claimed the EV1 was chopped, because they never broke down and the manufacturers feared that if they ever really became popular (you know when gas prices hit $4 and $5) that everyone would abandon the gas cars and then they'd go under, because their profits were in "SERVICES" not sales.
If you have a 1990 F150 that's lasted you that long. You probably got one of the few good trucks left. The old F150s and the Chevy Silverados were iron horses (mules that you could work into the ground), but the new vehicles are utter crap.
Don't take it personal, it is what it is and more and more people are realizing this. When American cars begin to be built with pride, I'll buy American. Until then, I don't need anything that's going to break down after the warranty is up. Plus I won't endorse a company (GM/Ford/etc) that offshores work and builds crap. If more people did the same, maybe these companies would think twice and we wouldn't be in this mess!
P.S. I drive a Benz C320, but when its time to buy again, I'm not sure I'd repeat my purchase. MBenz has gone down in quality since the mid 90s itself. They've made promises to improve on their quality lately and if they hold truth to their word then I'll buy, if not, I'd consider something else when I'm in the market.
-The educate consumer
From a fleet service vehicle point of view I can say that the newer trucks are likely just as good as the older ones. in the 70's , engines started leaking at the rear seal at around 100k . In this day and age , even the intake manifold is plastic. Fuel economy has greatly improved , but the vehicle quality OVERALL is just the same. It's just cheap plastic. Our expenses have only improved on fuel MPG. Maintenance and repairs are very much the same going back 20 years.
This is our fleet.....
We have three DODGE RAM 1500 (2003)
Two Ford F150 (2003)
6 Chevrolet 1500 (2002)
All trucks are way past 100K .The trucks that need the least overall repairs are the Ram 1500's
American passenger sedans suck. But , American trucks are good. At least considering the pressure to make them lighter to meet tougher CAFE standards. Plastic , plastic , plastic.
And it gets better....now its TWO shitty F-150s impeccably mantained by an expert. LOL! And one of the handful of Tacomas to NOT have problems. Wow lots of long shot percentages here.
Mr. "I'll give Mercedes another chance"
You are bashing American made products you knumbskull...that's the very definition of what you are doing, and putting alot of effort into it I might add.
What do you do Mr. Mercedes? I would like to see the quality of your work put your job at risk in the court of public oppinion. I'm guessing you'd not hold up as well as US made cars if those judging you were as ignorantly pissed at you as you are ignorantly pissed at US automakers.
How would that feel huh? Let's have GT Charlie determine if Mr. Mercedes does his job good enough to not ship it off to Japan. Maybe be begging for a little patriotism then huh?
You are as American as your beloved Mercedes in my book.
Hey America, with citizens like this who needs enemies huh?
And for the oil leak poster, I have two US vehicles both well over 100k ZERO oil leaks ever. Last Jap car I (nissan altima) had valve cover leaked at 60k and then tranny started leaking before it had 70k on it. What does that prove? Shall we judge the Japanese auto industry on my experiences?
"American passenger sedans suck."
I give up :(
You all deserve the pay cut that is coming your way. At least you'll motor through life with the pleasure of thinking you went to the dealer for repairs one or two times less than me or without wind buffeting.
Frogs in a pan.
GT Charlie
My ASE Master Certified Auto Tech works for LEXUS. He has a 2001 TUNDRA. Hates domestics and shops for everything at WALMART.
His '01 TACOMA has an exhaust leak at the manifold and it sounds like a PUTT PUTT Machine going down the street. Toyota and Japanese engineers love timing BELTS. Domestic engineers use chains.
My 1994 Toyota Pick up , Pre Tacoma , had a chain , but it was in the 22RE motor and they only lasted about 100K. My JEEP Cherokee Classic is way over 100k and runs like a tank with ZERO major expenses.
I always laugh my ass off when I see another Honda , Toyota or Nissan with a snapped timing belt stuck on the side of the road.
I will clearly state that my 2005 FORD RANGER is equal to or BETTER than the TACOMA. Challenge me on that , I dear ya. My co worker has a TACOMA from the same year and already he has had a DENSO piece of shit AC Compressor go out ! CHA CHING !! $1400
The RANGER is winning.
Ms Gold bug:"Our independent Toyota mechanic who has 25yrs experience, told us never to buy a Toyota after 2001. It seems they experimented with a 5 speed transmission, which has caused them lots of trouble in Camrys and Avalons."
I wanted to agree with the poster who said Tundras also had tranny problems after 2001.
We bought a new 2001 Tundra and sold it in 2007. It was a fantastic truck. We didnt even have to change the brakes, just regular oil changes. We never even had to change the brake pads - still lots left when we sold it, and we never had one single problem with it.
But, I think we are done with new Toyotas. Not only the tranny issue is a concern, but now all the Toyotas look so cheap plastic-like inside. They are not the same quality as the ones built in the 1980's & 1990's. If we end up needing a second car, I may buy a used 1996 Camry which is the model year I like the best, and it just happens to be a model we see everywhere - they just keep running, and can easily get 300k out of it, if the car was properly taken care of. I'll only buy from a owner who has maintained it.
I forgot to mention that after test driving the Rav, Morano and the CRV, we bought a brand new 2007 Hyundai 4WD Santa Fe. We have owned it for two years now and have not had one single issue with it. We love it, it's a great vehicle. Plan to keep it for at least the next 10 years.
thank you stuck in PA for your answer regarding vibration when windows down - that makes since. All the cars that I have owned all had AC...
"Anonymous said...
Never.
America is Dead.
So are ALL the american car companies.
Good Riddance."
ps; Their workers are DEAD too. Myabe, just maybe the retard autoworker can be trained to flip burgers or take out the garbage. Not much more Obama-style Hope than that. Your idustry is dead and you are fucked UAW. You deserve everything (nothing, when your phony bullshit benefits are over) you are going to get.
DIE GM DIE CHRYSLER DIE UAW AND DIE EVERY LAST ONE OF THE SUPPLIERS TO THE SHIT COMPANIES.
Wy not find a high place and Jump?
Anonymous said...
I rest my case. ANY time this subject comes up the Benedict Arnolds come out of the wood work with all sorts of dambass reasons American cars suck.
GT charlie
------------------
I think you missed the news that your great American car companies just went bankrupt.
"And it gets better....now its TWO shitty F-150s impeccably mantained by an expert. LOL! And one of the handful of Tacomas to NOT have problems. Wow lots of long shot percentages here."
Dumbass, I never said he was an expert, only that, and I quote, "...is a hard core car enthusiast. Not only did he change his oil on time, he kept his trucks like his babies." and that was in response to the loser comment about changing oil.
Why the anger anyway? I'm only stating fact and my own personal experience. Could it be because you work (worked) for Ford/GM/etc?
In any case, I'm not here to get into a pissing contest with you. I think all the inbreeding has ensured you'll be the victor anyway.
Your right, I’m wrong. American cars and trucks are awesome!!! Yeah… Now let’s get back to drinking Bud out of the can, kicking our girlfriend’s teeth in and hunting deer with our AK-47s.
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